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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to be asked about med students being in my appointments?

105 replies

beth27123 · 12/07/2013 14:48

Just gone into my 16 week midwife appointment to be faced with two baby faced male med students. I had quite personal questions I wanted to ask and felt like I should have been asked? Maybe I'm overreacting on the subject but with a history of abuse from a former relationship I find it hard enough to have OH in some appointments. I don't really know how to deal with it but it was suggested these students may be present in further appointments.

OP posts:
thefuturesnotourstosee · 12/07/2013 21:18

You think that's bad OP?? My ds was delivered by a male student midwife and I didn't find out until afterwards he was a student!! To be fair there was another midwife the room and DS was delivered in a bit of a hurry - nearly had to cross my legs to stop him coming in the lift but nobody asked me if I was happy to have a student in charge.

As it happens he did a fabulous job and I was really reassured by him but it would have been nice to be consulted first!! (actually I would probably have screamed "I don't bloody care get this f*cking baby out of me" and that would have been taken as consent Grin )

YANBU

Jollyb · 12/07/2013 21:31

Starfish when I was a med student and doing a gynae rotation we were expected to go and see all the patients on the ward before their operations. We'd have to ask if they'd consent to us examining them along with the consultant during their surgery

I must admit it was fairly mortifying but most women were happy to be examined.

MummytoKatie · 12/07/2013 23:14

Agree you should be asked.

Personally I like students. They are always so focused and trying so hard. And the midwife / doctor is watching them really carefully so you get twice the chance of things being picked up,

bimbabirba · 12/07/2013 23:21

With my last pregnancy toward the end i needed to be seen a lot and I was so utterly fed up with always having a room full of people in the end I told the midwife I didn't want any students at future appointments.

apostropheuse · 12/07/2013 23:23

thefuture Lots of babies are delivered by student midwives with a qualified midwife in attendance. That's perfectly normal. In fact I believe they have to deliver a certain amount of babies before they're qualified. I'm not sure why you were horrified that he was male either!

OP you should have been consulted first. I personally have no problem with students being there, but I do understand there are people who don't like it.

vintagecakeisstillnice · 12/07/2013 23:40

Yes you should always be asked.

And best practice should be that you are asked without them in the room.

Personally, as an ex-HCP both OH and I are more than happy to have students present, sadly we have had too many hospital appointments recently.

But only when asked, and if not asked I would give the qualified staff member shit (though not in the sight/hearing of the student)

Mimishimi · 12/07/2013 23:42

Why would you think they would be abusive though?

freemanbatch · 12/07/2013 23:54

With DD2 I had a student midwife at every appointment and she was supposed to do my home birth but she was ill. I had agreed to her delivering the baby if she felt comfortable and all was well.

That student is now my midwife for baby number 3 and I am confident she know what she's doing because I saw her in training BUT she has assumed I am happy to have her student do my appointments and has never actually asked. It hasn't stopped me telling them exactly what went on with my ex and requesting that they refer the situation to children's services for me or anything. It wasn't easy to be outnumbered while having the conversation but the student is getting an added education and will be in a better place to deal with women in my situation when she's qualified so I try not to worry about the fact I have never been asked and just get on with it.

OrangeLily · 13/07/2013 00:38

I really don't mind students being in but I've asked everytime and I have consented to med students doing procedures on me too. However, I don't have a huge fear of hospitals or doctors and they have always fixed what's broken and they have to learn somehow. Last one looked terrified when left alone with me and asked me a few awkward questions to make small talk. I hope I did my best to be not terrifying and not look like the questions had fairly obvious answers. All got to learn somehow Smile

Whothefuckfarted · 13/07/2013 08:55

yanbu

ifindoubtnamechange · 13/07/2013 09:53

I have had this happen. Try saying "So who are you then?" Usually helps to highlight that they should have asked and most people don't want random strangers sitting in wihtout being asked.

minouminou · 13/07/2013 10:55

Seconding the idea of putting a note on your notes (sounds daft, that phrase) that says you don't want students/male students at your appts.

I went the opposite way and said I actively welcomed students.....I remember telling one student that she needed to put more pressure on in order to feel DS' bum!

However......primarily, your appt is for YOUR welfare, as well as the baby's, and the medical students WILL get their chances to sit in on other appts, so if it's not your bag.....make it quite clear. If anything, it helps the students, as they won't be wasting any time.

minouminou · 13/07/2013 11:03

I also had a male student present as DS' birth. It was great, as he was an extra body that had medical training.
He was a lovely guy, and stayed with me when the midwife left the room and DP was asleep (loooooooong labour, epidural, forceps) and we had a serious talk about the NHS, and what my legs felt like after the epidural, how much it had hurt beforehand....all sorts.

Lots of positive stories, OP. Hiwever, your comfort is what counts, as you're the patient.

HappyMummyOfOne · 13/07/2013 11:40

Ours ask but I have never said no. How else will they learn and get to become doctors, midwives and nurses? The student may be the doctor that saves your life onedy.

HappyMummyOfOne · 13/07/2013 11:40

Blooming ipad, one day even.

MousyMouse · 13/07/2013 11:46

yanbu
you should have been asked first.

but I never so far refused and with my first dc the delivery room was suddenly full of students (so observe the ventouse delivery) and with my second I had a fabulous student midwife, my dc was her first birth. she was lovely, asked the right questions to the observing midwife, held my hands whilst being stitched up, cleaned the first meconium of baby...visited me on the ward the next day. I hope she's doing well as a fully qualified mw now!

cheerfulweather · 13/07/2013 11:53

I remember an appointment where consultant pointed at a mute person in the corner and said "medical student" I was Shock

I don't mind if asked nicely and before they are actually in the room.

I once had a scan for a suspected miscarriage, when I was much younger, was asked if student could remain in the room. I didn't really want them there at such an appointment, but felt I couldn't refuse, which isn't right.

thefuturesnotourstosee · 13/07/2013 12:17

apostrophe I wasn't horrified he was male and actually if ASKED I would not have minded at all. Its only that I wasn't asked that matters to me. I might have minded for all they knew.

I had a med student at DD's birth too - bad experience for him!! High on gas and air I demanded his hand in marriage and when he politely refused I told him not to worry about DP Shock and then was sick all over him. Well he did say he wanted practical experience.

In fact the chap who delivered DS was lovely as I think I said in my original post. DS was his qualifying baby. He'll be a great midwife by now.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 13/07/2013 13:04

In her book, 'How Not To Be A Perfect Mother', Libby Purves retells the story of a friend who was in active labour when suddenly the door to her room opened, and a batch of medical students trooped in, without a by-your-leave - and she was so incensed she propped herself up on her elbows and demanded ticket money from the audience. And she was so scary that some of them reached straight into their pockets - before they were ushered out.

A friend of mine who is now a senior GP was a medical student when I first met him, and told me about a consultant gynaecologist who used to get all the medical students to do internal exams on the women on his theatre list - once they were unconscious and on the operating table, and utterly without their consent!! I think he intimidated the Theatre nurses so much that no-one ever complained about this. Thankfully I think he retired years ago!

noddyholder · 13/07/2013 13:31

I have a very complicated medical history and nearly always have students sit in. I used to be ok with it as I know they need to learn but as I get older I am aghast at some of the stupid questions they ask and am less inclined to say yes

EnlightenedOwl · 13/07/2013 15:50

confess it doesn't bother me either guess they have to learn

ShadowStorm · 13/07/2013 17:41

YANBU.

You should have been asked if you minded the medical students being there first.

Of course they all have to learn, but if the appointment involves talking about personal stuff, or examinations that a patient may be feeling nervy about, the patient shouldn't be feeling pressured into having the medical students there.

DoraExplorer1993 · 13/07/2013 17:48

YABU, if you expect access to medical treatment you should be prepared to accept that medical students need to be trained so that medical treatment can be provided in the future for others.

Reminds me of people who rage against learner drivers forgetting that in order to drive themselves, they once were a learner.

Wbdn28 · 13/07/2013 18:35

if you expect access to medical treatment you should be prepared to accept that medical students need to be trained so that medical treatment can be provided in the future for others.

Surely people give and take at various times in their life, but it doesn't necessarily have to be an exact "tit for tat"?

Mrsdavidcaruso · 13/07/2013 18:54

I agree student Drs need to learn, and one of the most important lesson they need to learn is that patients should be treated with respect and have rights and those rights include telling them to piss off.

I one refused to let medical students touch me during a ward round when they were with my Consultant, when the Consultant tried to insist that they could examine me I still said no and told the Consultant that if he kept insisting I was going to make a complaint - the students had to leave

Judging by the looks on the student faces I think the lesson they learnt that days was that the Consultant was Not God almighty even though he thought he was.

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