To think that if your FB status is "There are so many myths and lies around- challenge what you hear, step out and be you" then it's probably best if you....

[curlew]

......a Reiki Master and an enthusiastic promoter of Juice +......

Birdsgottafly Many alternative therapies are used in my local Cancer hospital, Clatterbridge, they can achieve what taking a pill, cannot, that is how they are supposed to be used.

It is not entirely clear from your post what you mean.

As long as you accept that what they are "achieving" is the relaxation of the patient, which is undeniably a good thing, that's OK.

If you think that it is curing the cancer, you are so far wrong that I cannot adequately express it.

If you think that it is curing the cancer, you are so far wrong that I cannot adequately express it.

that really isnt what she was saying

Which is why I was careful to write that it was unclear, and that there are some beenfits.

Which is why I was careful to write that it was unclear, and that there are some beenfits.

yeah I know wasn't having a go at you

The theory behind massage can from the same beliefs as did Reiki and a lot of alternative therapies have.

Massage was rubbished at one time, as was using diet to control and prevent illnesses (which also came from the same belief systems).

"If you think that it is curing the cancer, you are so far wrong that I cannot adequately express it."

No i don't and i am sure that the Oncologists that recommend these therapies don't either, a lot is achieved by our state of mind and being relaxed, many health benefits come from using these therapies, which brings us back to there being some truth in what is claimed and unless you inform yourself, you shouldn't just rubbish them.

Our state of mind has a big effect on our physical health, Western medicine didn't interlink the two, in the past, now we do and the way to improve our state of mind is to de-stress without using alcohol etc and being open minded.

mrsjay yeah I know wasn't having a go at you

Just trying to be crystal clear. We won't start a flame war.

Birdsgottafly The theory behind massage can from the same beliefs as did Reiki and a lot of alternative therapies have...

Physical manipulation of muscles is not the same as reiki.

A massage (gentle rubbing etc) can be pleasant and relaxing, and I suppose that reiki can too.

A proper sports massage on the other hand may be uncomfortable, or even hurt, but can have a remarkable effect on tired/sore/stiff muscles.

"Physical manipulation of muscles is not the same as reiki."

Yes, i know i am qualified in both. But the same belief systems bought us the ideas about treating the whole person.

The Asian world understood the human body and what it needed to e completely well, long before the Western world, as did other culture's.

Why anyone wouldn't be open to trying alternative therapies, if they were suffering, i cannot understand.

People don't seem to understand that we take all of our medication from nature and reproduce it, so it is cheaper and we have more from it, but everything we need does exist in nature. That is why Cancer support charities etc has their symbol as a daffodil.

That is what i mean by informing yourself, before you rubbish therapies.

I don't personally believe in all of them, though.

anti-depressants are a marvellous thing - IF they work for you. Because it is all about brain and body chemistry, drugs have different effects for different people. For instance, 10% of the population get no pain relief from codeine, about 80% do find it helps and the remainder get stoned out of their minds on it.

This is why some people will find ADs don't work. It's not that they aren't proven and a marvellous piece of modern science. It is CERTAINLY not because they are part of some medical conspiracy.

I hope that everyone who needs them finds one that works.

Birdsgottafly
Why anyone wouldn't be open to trying alternative therapies, if they were suffering, i cannot understand.

I am entirely open to alternative therapies, provided that they are either proven to work (eg acupuncture, massage) or simply make sense (struggling to think of an example that is unproven, but does none the less make sense).

People don't seem to understand that we take all of our medication from nature and reproduce it, so it is cheaper and we have more from it...

For example, aspirin: derived from bark (I think, I'm not actually any kind of scientist), used by relatively primitive people because it worked, then extensively tested, researched, refined and mass-produced.

And then morons like my SIL, when her DD has a fever, reject this and go to their homeopath instead. F*ckwits.

....everything we need does exist in nature.

Not everything, or at least not in a usable/useful form. eg Ibuprofen.

I don't personally believe in all of them, though.

As you may have guessed, I am a strong believer in healthy scepticism.

acupuncture has been shown not to work too

curlew
acupuncture has been shown not to work too

Shows what I know!

I need more scepticism.

very interesting article about accupuncture, with references

"acupuncture has been shown not to work too"

But even if it has a placebo effect, it has worked, just not directly.

A lot of research has been done on the placebo effect and has shown that we can overcome some illnesses etc, if we believe that we can and do over medicate ourselves, which damages us, our Immune system, Kidney's, Pain response etc.

I find those, that won't even accept that diet can make a difference to our whole health and want a pill for everything, i have a few relatives that have conditions that their doctors are telling them can be helped, if not removed, such as low level thyroid/diabetes and IBS by changing their lifestyle and including relaxation, but they want a potion (perhaps this is who Homeopathy was invented for?) .

Alternative medicine that is proved to work is called... medicine

Absolutely the placebo effect is real. Are you saying that it's ok to bullshit people about chakras and energy fields and so on because the placebo effect is real? To lie to people and take their money?

I do think the placebo affect is fascinating.

I know two people who have had acupuncture for two different ailments, after having lots of traditional treatment. Both ailments were long standing, yet they very quickly felt relief with acupuncture. Why is that so, there's no scientific reason for it.

Presumably they wanted and hoped for their traditional treatment to work, so it's not like they felt more positively towards the acupuncture.

Yes, this is anecdotal, but I'm sure there are similar cases out there, which leads me to wonder; if it's not the acupuncture physically making them better, what is it about the mental impact of having acupuncture that triggers recovery in some people?

curlew Thanks for the link. Interesting and educational.

As an aside, did you read Ben Goldacre's Bad Science column? Hours of entertaining and informative reading still on his website.

My personal favourite is his dissection of QLink pendants - because friends of ours had just spent £210 buying three for all the family.

Interesting stuff on the placebo effect. With refrences

I do not believe in woo at all. Without conventional medicine, I would be dead.

However... last year I went to physio on the NHS and was offered acupuncture. I was very sceptical, but thought there must be something in it, as the cash-strapped NHS would not offer it unless there was some proven benefit.

It helped. I was amazed, as I really didn't expect it to. (the physio told me that he wasn't using it in the 'oriental' meridian sense, but to stimulate nerve endings or something)

I still think reiki and homeopathy is tosh though.

Is that the dictionary defintion of a scam?

If her patients were paying for it, then yes. As they're not, however, then no. You can actually get Reiki on the NHS, factfans.

People don't seem to understand that we take all of our medication from nature and reproduce it, so it is cheaper and we have more from it, but everything we need does exist in nature. That is why Cancer support charities etc has their symbol as a daffodil.

Actually, the cancer charities have their symbol as a daffodil because the colour yellow is cheerful - there is no evidence that daffodils have any effect on cancer other than being a cheerful image. Ditto the hummingbird for diabetes (although it's worth bearing in mind that a hummingbird's diet is sugar-based). Neither daffodils nor hummingbirds will cure cancer or diabetes, FFS.

"You can actually get Reiki on the NHS"

Please someone tell me this is n't true...............

My friend can't get the IVF she desperately would like on the NHS at a very young age (postcode lottery) but she could get Acupuncture ffs.

If you've ever been past one of those Chinese Medicine practices, I think the biggest giveaway that it's a load of bollocks (and it really, really is) is the way they claim to be able to "cure" pretty much every ailment they can print on their shop window.

I don't care if acupuncture worked for you, it was a placebo effect. There is no Qi, there is no meridian, there are no five phases. We are very complicated organisms and sticking a needle in a place that some dude imagined would be helpful hundreds of years ago because "wwwooooOOOOOWOOWOOooooWOOW spiritualism" is not a reason.

The actual cause of the placebo effect is still not 100% understood but I honestly put it down to the fact that there are a lot of whingers out there and if you stick a needle in them they have an excuse to shut up.