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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this ebay seller has it wrong?

24 replies

SelectAUserName · 11/07/2013 17:51

This is my first AIBU, so please be gentle Grin

About three weeks ago I (or rather my DH, using my ebay account) bought a chair on ebay. It was a wooden-framed chair with a slightly padded seat, narrow wooden arms and a fretwork back (not sure that's the right term: wooden framed back with the majority of the middle bit cut out leaving a sort of quite fine, fancy-patterned 'insert' attached to the the frame at one point per side - sorry, my powers of description are rubbish!) The chair ultimately cost £46 and was listed as collection only. My DH hadn't noticed that last bit and the seller was a little bit further away than I would usually travel to pick up a chair. However, within a couple of hours of the auction ending and before I'd had a chance to pay or discuss collection, the seller messaged offering to courier it via 48-hour delivery for a further £31. To save time and petrol money, I agreed.

It took six days, rather than 48 hours, for the chair to be delivered so I was a wee bit annoyed I'd paid for 48-hour delivery but there we are. Unpacked the chair, which was wrapped in a thin layer of cardboard over an equally thin layer of polythene (no padding at all) to find the wooden 'fretwork' part of the back completely snapped off and broken into two separate pieces with a further narrow 'splinter' of wood which had split off from the bigger piece one of the break points. In addition the front edge of the padded seat lifted away from the frame beneath and the wood was slightly (freshly) split there too. Basically, it was damaged beyond repair.

I contacted the seller to inform him and to ask for a refund of the £77 and offered him the choice of having it sent back to him and reimbursing us for the further carriage charges or us disposing of it. I sent photos of the chair unwrapped from the cardboard but not even out of the polythene with the broken pieces clearly visible. He messaged back asking us to dispose of it as it was less hassle for him. He thought from the photos it had been trodden on by the courier. He said he had insured it and that the insurance might get in touch. I took loads more photos just in case before we got the council to take it away (for which we had to pay!)

Fast forward another week and a half or so to the beginning of this week, when I suddenly realised I hadn't had an email from PayPal re the refund. I checked my account - no refund. I messaged the seller, politely asking for the refund ASAP. He has just replied saying that the insurance claim hasn't been settled yet (not my problem?!) and that he can't pay until it has been as for all he knows I could have repaired the chair and sold it on at a profit! And then , to add insult to injury, he asked if the insurance company does get in touch with me, can I tell them the value of the chair was £65 rather than £46 as he needs to recover some of his costs! Angry

I am composing a reply along the lines that his delivery insurance isn't any of my concern, that my contract is with him and he sold me a chair that is unfit for purpose so I am entitled to a refund, that I'm not prepared to commit insurance fraud, that I offered him the chance of having the chair returned so don't appreciate being accused of dishonesty, that if he had packed/padded the chair better in the first place this might never have happened and that if I don't get my refund by 6.00pm tomorrow I will open an ebay dispute. Does that sound reasonable? Anything else I need to know? I am right in thinking he is massively trying it on, aren't I?

Moral of that (excessively long - sorry!) story is: don't let DH loose on ebay!

OP posts:
MoonHare · 11/07/2013 17:57

Perfectly reasonable, remember when wording your reply that ebay will read it so do remain polite - as you have indicated you will. He probably won't refund you but if not then ebay should do.

Onesleeptillwembley · 11/07/2013 17:59

Listen to your own moral. You should have either collected or sorted your own courier. You need to wait for the courier to pay. The seller did nothing wrong in this case, I don't see why he should be out of pocket.It's Ebay, not Debenhams.

inneedofsomehelpplz · 11/07/2013 18:04

you should have returned the chair at your own cost as per ebay rules. did seller agree you could get rid of the chair? next time, get dh to check where the item is.

SelectAUserName · 11/07/2013 18:09

Yes inneed as I mentioned above, I offered the seller the choice of us returning the chair or disposing of it and he chose the former as it was less hassle for him.

Onesleep I would have collected it if I'd known it was going to end up as this palaver, but equally I don't see why I should be out of pocket either when I have done even less wrong than him? I bought a chair in good faith; he sent it in rubbish packaging and has asked me to commit insurance fraud before I can have my refund?

MoonHare Thanks, I'll remove all the references to "you wankbadger" and hope ebay reads them subliminally (JOKE!)

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SelectAUserName · 11/07/2013 18:09

Sorry, he chose the latter - d'oh!

OP posts:
CancellingTheApocalypse · 11/07/2013 18:10

Just open a case. I think eBay or PayPal would judge in your favour and they would just refund your money, as long as you paid by PayPal.

CancellingTheApocalypse · 11/07/2013 18:12

When you open the case there is an option to tick that the seller has already agreed to refund, I believe. And if all your messages are through eBay messaging, not your personal email, then they will see that he had said so.

SelectAUserName · 11/07/2013 18:14

That's useful, thanks Cancelling . I've never had to open a dispute before, not a huge user of ebay tbh.

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HoneyStepMummy · 11/07/2013 18:15

I recommend giving Ebay a call. I believe you could file a dispute with Ebay or PayPal. You won and paid for the chair fair and square- fine. You were ready to drive and pick it up but seller offered another shipping option- great. It's certainly not your fault that it got damaged. I'm not saying it was the seller's fault either, but if it wasn't packaged property that's most likely why it got damaged.
Since the seller purchased the insurance, entered a contract with them then filed a claim he needs to wait to be reimbursed, not you. You are correct- by lying to the insurance company about the cost of the item he's committing fraud. If he's concerned about you 'fixing and selling the chair' then why doesn't he ask you to send it back??

Champagnecharleyismyname · 11/07/2013 18:17

I sent a lamp once that was bought via eBay, it smashed in transit. I refunded buyer straight away. Post office did no accept claim and sent me a book of first class stamps in compensation!

Anyway unfair for you to be out of pocket, sounds like it was not packaged properly. Raise a dispute thru ebay

Crowler · 11/07/2013 18:26

I'm afraid I'm on the seller's side.

Imagine you have something to sell, you want it collected, the buyer doesn't heed to this and requests a courier. Wrapping up an old chair isn't fun, he didn't sign onto it, maybe he doesn't even really know how to do it.

Had he offered delivery in his auction it probably would have gone for quite a lot more. I'd be a bit frustrated if I were him to be honest.

xylem8 · 11/07/2013 18:26

is it a business seller or an individual

SelectAUserName · 11/07/2013 18:33

Crowler, I didn't request the courier. The seller offered it before I'd even had the chance to pay or message him about collection.

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Crowler · 11/07/2013 18:35

Ah, my bad. OK. Was the cost of the courier included in the transaction?

Crowler · 11/07/2013 18:35

I mean, did he include it in the invoice?

SelectAUserName · 11/07/2013 18:37

Yes, he advised me not to pay the original end-of-auction invoice and he issued a subsequent one for a total of £77 including 48-hour delivery (which, as stated, turned into 6-day delivery in reality).

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MegaClutterSlut · 11/07/2013 18:46

IMO the seller should refund. He should have packaged it well enough to ensure it got there in one piece

You shouldn't have got rid of the chair tbh, sometimes ebay/paypal will ask you to send it back tracked and then refund you once they have the tracking number...

SelectAUserName · 11/07/2013 19:06

Oh bummer Mega Sad Although if ebay need any proof I have the system messages asking him what he wanted us to do with it and his reply, and also a copy of the email to our council asking for its collection with a description of "one wooden bedroom chair".

OP posts:
Crowler · 11/07/2013 20:43

OP sorry I misread your original post. I would guess that Ebay will probably rule in your favor, but they may want you to return the chair (which I guess you can't do). If he's an established seller, he may refund the cost to avoid negative FB. Good luck.

kali110 · 11/07/2013 23:18

Open a dispute if you paid via paypal as they will refund you. I feel for the seller but you shouldn't have to wait for his insurance. You dont want to wait to long otherwise you may not be able to open a dispute.

kinkyfuckery · 12/07/2013 00:14

A little offtopic, but why did you get the council to collect (and make a point of the fact that you paid for the service) when you presumably have a car yourself, or access to one?

SarahAndFuck · 12/07/2013 00:27

OP you should open a dispute.

You only get a limited time to do so and a friend of mine lost out on a refund for missing goods because the seller managed to stall her for just long enough that the time limit ran out.

The day after the time limit ended they cut all contact with my friend and ebay and paypal said they couldn't help her as she had waited too long to open a dispute.

sarahtigh · 12/07/2013 00:42

you have 45 days to open dispute from day you paid,

if seller offered courier it is sellers job to make sure the item arrives and is intact, if an item arrives broken that is sellers problem not buyers no amount of stating I am not responsible for items lost/ broken in transit will work the seller is responsible he should refund then claim from courier

however for claim to progress evidence of breakage and packaging is needed so generally item and packaging should be kept by buyer as proof if item not returned to seller

I sell mostly on ebay and if anything does break I refund on photographic evidence,

SelectAUserName · 12/07/2013 03:03

kinky Not sure that this is really relevant but I arranged for council collection because our nearest tip is only open to the public 10am-6pm and I work full-time so wouldn't be able to get there in time, and we happened to be going away the following weekend. The timing of the delivery and the seller's "you dispose of it" response meant that the chair would have been sitting around uselessly taking up space for the best part of a fortnight if we hadn't got the council to take it away. (And for anyone thinking "well you must have had room for it before you bought it" - we did, but in the bedroom, and I was buggered if I was going to manhandle it upstairs to have to bring it down again to get rid!)

Thank you Sarah x 2. I did take plenty of photos showing that the back of the chair had broken off before we even got the polythene unwrapped, and also a couple of the thin cardboard outer packaging.

As I said, I'm not a big user of eBay and I've never had any problems before, so it didn't occur to me that despite the seller advising me to dispose of the chair, I should have hung on to it.

I'll give him till end of play on Friday as planned and if no joy, will open a dispute. Thanks for all your advice.

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