Proposal that people with donor cards are given priority over those that don't when needing an organ?

[angelos02]

DM Link if you want more detail:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359972/Is-fair-dont-Organ-donors-jump-transplant-waiting-list-NHS-plans-boost-donation-levels.html

I can't see why anyone would argue against this. I do think an exception would have to be made for people that can't be donors due to medical reasons. Apart from that, why on earth not?

Given my size, my organs would likely go to a teenager. Frankly they can have whatever they like.

I'm unhappy with the "give to receive" principle - we disdain it for taxation and gift giving, so why does it suddenly become ok for organs?

I'd oppose plans to permit benefits only to those who've put in, too. It feels like the same argument. I want to live in a society where we give willingly, and the most needy get. Desert and need aren't always linked.

Besides, some of the most in need of transplants (eg CF patients) can't go on the donor register anyway.

horry most of us up thread that kinda agree with the principle have said that if you CAN'T give (too young to give consent/medical condition) that's fine. If you CHOOSE not to give (religion/general icky feeling) that's less fine...

I don't find transplants disgusting at all.

What a ridiculously complicated situation that would be. I am on the register. I wouldn't dream of stipulating that my organs only go to someone who is also on the register. I think that is madness. There are so many reasons why someone might not be in the register (such as the point Horry just made about CF patients).

eccentrica Considering only one third of those able to are on the register yet reading these threads you would think it was the vast majority, I think it's pretty brave to say actually I don't want to and here's why. It's obviously a conversation that's needed given the figures. Why should those that want to discuss it from the other side (not just the simplistic I'm on you all should be too side) be silenced through fear of appearing selfish?

Tell me one other aspect of life where people are made to feel that way, or phrases like sad or self serving are used, when someone refuses to do something optional?

I don't think I can be on the register (I take lots of medication) - is that correct?

latara why not go on it anyway? Might be they can only use a tiny fragment of your liver, or it might be that (god forbid) if or when your bits were required, medical science may have developed the ability to "wash" drugs out of organs, or something.

I may do that then.

I think it is simple...you either agree with organ donation or you don't.

If it is religious, cultural for personal reasons or whatever, that is entirely your choice. I think it is wrong for people to not want to donate and yet happily take an organ from someone else. It is almost as if you are saying your body is more valuable than someone else's.

But I could turn that right back to you.

You agree or you don't, means you can't attach conditions onto that which you are. You have to give to recieve.

It's not simple at all is it?

I don't attach conditions - as I can't. Doesn't stop me from donating.

I also believe that my liver is better off in an alcoholic's body to keep them alive, than it is in the ground with me or incinerated in a crematorium.

For what its worth, I dont think people who choose not to donate are selfish any more than someone who buys a chocolate bar instead of putting 50p in a charity box, or someone who keeps both of their buy 1 get 1 free deal instead of giving one to a food bank, or who decides they want to be an accountant instead of a doctor. Humans are inherently selfish, nothing wrong with it!

Nor do I want to see an opt out scheme. What I would like to see is much more awareness - for instance every time I go to the docs im asked if I smoke - why cant they ask about the donor register too? Would take all of 5 seconds.

And I say that as someone on the donor list and as part of the Parkinsons Brain Bank scheme.

Personally, I find all this screeching about selfishness very tasteless and holier-than-thou. It is not your body, so it is not your choice, and that is the end of it. Noone has any right to make someone else feel lesser because of differing personal choices. We do not tolerate it with abortion, we should not tolerate it here.

patsy I really, really, don't mean for this to sound arsey, I really don't, but it may do, so I apologise in advance if it does...
I am wholeheartedly for organ donor ship. I would prefer an opt out system (where, from birth or 13 or 16 or whatever, if you are in a position to give and someone is in a position to receive, your organs are automatically donated, unless you say otherwise) rather than the current opt in system. I would also prefer, that if there were two identical people in the organ donor register (in terms of compatibility, likelihood of transplant taking, lifestyle choices, likely longevity post transplant), that someone ON the register took precedence over someone that wasn't. (That is statistically so unlikely thoug, that is realistically a moot point). Those are my general feelings.
Can you explain yours to me? You've said in this thread that "it just doesn't sit right" and "I don't find transplants disgusting". To me, personally, I find it difficult to match those two opinions. And, if you are willing to spell it out to a stranger on the Internet, you may find it clears it up in your own head (and to be honest, I don't mind if you decide yes or no, it's unwillingness to make a decision, in any area of life I can't stand. Make a decision, change your mind, say you're wrong, don't mind, but make a decision!!)

But fyrefly all your examples are for whilst you're still living... Yes I am a selfish, live human being. I buy chocolate instead of giving to charity. I'm not a dr. I keep my BOGOFs. But if I can do one thing (which, lets be honest, affects me in no way whatsoever) to be a selfless, dead bunch of cells, why not?

Patsy, if you were walking by a lake and watched a boy drowning, although you could have saved him by reaching out an arm at no risk to you, you would (correctly) be described as selfish. You aren't criminally culpable, but you're undoubtedly morally culpable.

I don't think it's an unreasonable analogy with organ donation.

But you still have the right to refuse.

I used those examples because (other than the doctor one) they don't affect you detrimentally even if you are still alive. If you have an unexpected BOGOF (love that word) and dont need it then surely the non selfish thing to do is to give it to someone who does? Likewise if you find a tenner on the ground. Assuming youre not struggling, its nice for you but you dont need it, just like you dont need your organs after death. Therefore, using logic seen on this thread, surely what you should do is give it to charity?

The difference there jee is that people dont die from lack of organs, they die of heart failure / cirrhosis / kidney failure etc. Saying that not donating is akin to condemning someone to death is way too far. You cannot hold individuals culpable for someone elses lung /liver problems!

fyrefly true. But... I only buy BOGOFs when they work out cheaper than 2 of my usual items (so I do need both) and when I find a tenner, it tends to go in the nspcc box at tescos. However, this still does impact on your living life. Unless you are struggling to spend all of your monthly income, that extra BOGOF or tenner could take the kids to the cinema, or buy a bottle of wine to share with a friend, or provide the petrol to go and see a sick friend... Still making a difference to your living life.

Fyrefly I'm sorry, I have used an over-the-top example - and I do try not to get too emotional on these kind of threads. I don't think trying to guilt trip people into going on the register is ever a good idea. But now I've done just that.

I agree, it can. But I think my point is that being selfish is a personal perogative, and not always a bad thing. As I said in my previous post, im on two registers, and am v pro donation. But I do really hate the venom on here to those who have made the "wrong" choice in what is ultimately a deeply personal matter. Again, as before, I dont believe anyone has the right to make someone else feel lesser over something so personal. I signed up to help people, not to give myself kudos and a superiority complex.

I believe the system should be opt out, not opt in.
My mum received new lungs 4 years ago so I am a big believer in donation.

However, I would never agree to this suggestion that only those deserving of organs should receive them. Medical priority is the key, nothing else matters.

Jeee it is a deeply emotional, personal topic and extreme rhetoric is bound to come out. Dont worry about it :) Like you I dont think guilt tripping (ie donate or you cant have one) is right, but I would really like to see so much more awareness of it. Did they ever run a tv advert like the give blood one? That would be good. Plus education in schools / asking at gps etc.

I'm the same. I don't want to guilt trip people into it, but I do want "meh" people to think about it. And as I mentioned earlier, even if they WERE to introduce the "only receive if you are on the register" thing, as long as clinical/medical need was priority (it has to be, surely?! Shit, hadn't even thought about it from an angle of "if you're not on the register you're not on the list" - that's horrible), the likelihood of there being more than one person on the list with the same requirement is pretty close to zero (I think).

I've had a liver transplant so clearly I'm pro-donation. People end up needing a transplant for all sorts of reasons and if you attended a follow up clinic appointment you'd see people of all ages, races and classes who have been unfortunate enough to have an illness that destroyed an organ.

I went from seemingly healthy to having a transplant in 5 weeks. Mine was an undiagnosed genetic issue but don't be fooled into assuming these illnesses only happen to other people.

I don't like the sound of this proposal even though I was on the register at the time of my transplant. Clinical need should be paramount.

Oh and liver transplants are not always split livers. It depends on all sorts of factors about who is on the list, tissue matches. Etc.

I think one of the reasons there is such a low sign-up to the register is because a number of people will have held a donor card for years, pre-dating the set-up of the online register, and probably assume (due to the lack of general public awareness / 'push' from the medical profession / Parliament) that they don't need to do any more, IYSWIM.