Putting money in my name because of separation...

DontWantToDoThis · 2013-07-10T15:42:38+00:00

Just checking my namechange stuck - if not I'll be back with another thread!

Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 10/07/2013 16:51

OK, Dsis is separated, has some savings that she wants to put in my name so that exBiL doesn't get to hear about them if she has to provide an affadavit of means.

He IS an arse of the first order (e.g. can't pay £55 of nursery fees as he's broke, but sent the email stating this at 5am, and in the next paragraph said he was on a weekend away, obviously on the piss!) and lots of other stuff.

In the country where we are, any debt he has is taken into account before working out what he should pay for maintenance (no CSA).

Since the separation he has racked up about 6 figures of debt (we reckon some is deliberate to minimise what he has to pay towards his own kids, the rest is on "essentials" such as a flash car, holidays etc. Yet he can't manage to bring Dniece to the dentist when she is in pain on his day to have her because he can't afford it)

However, I'm not at ALL comfortable allowing Dsis to put money temporarily in my account so that she can get round disclosing it on a technicality.

She's paying good money for a solicitor (shit hot, recommended by her employer) so if there isn't an official way round this, I don't want to get involved in anything murky.

Also, I work for a large financial institution, and one of the things in my contract basically states that employees have to remain solvent and generally "whiter than white" - this could, at a stretch of the imagination, break that clause. I'm a single parent, and can't afford to lose my job.

AIBU to tell her no? and if I'm not, can you wise MNetters give me some tactful wordings to use?

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ThreeEyedRaven · 10/07/2013 16:55

oh wow, that's fraud. he sounds like a tit but you're right to say no!

AuntieStella · 10/07/2013 16:56

I sympathise so much with where she is coming from.

But hiding assets is just plain wrong.

Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 10/07/2013 17:01

Phew, this was my first AIBU thread, first few answers are in agreement, so I'm not being a miserly cah after all!

Now wtf do I say to her...

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MaxPepsi · 10/07/2013 17:05

Tricky.

No idea about whether it's technically fraud or not but you can have other people's money in your account. Think holiday saving accounts etc etc.

Could she put it in trust?

And how much exactly are you talking about? And do you know how she got the money?

Not sure how it works where you are but you can protect things like inheritances and pensions.

ClaraOswald · 10/07/2013 17:08

Could it be seen as money laundering and fraud?

AuntieStella · 10/07/2013 17:11

Yes, it's fraud.

And I think that's probably the line to take with her. She must know about the financial propriety requirements of your employment. You can say how you are ready to support her in so many ways, but this is an area where you simply cannot afford to lose your job, and don't want to see her in prison.

You can google for authoritative descriptions of this type of fraud and the kinds of sentences that have been handed down recently for those caught out. I happened to look at this one but you might find others which are better worded for your purposes.

CloudsAndTrees · 10/07/2013 17:11

Definitely don't do it.

Can your sister put money into a pension, or an account for the children that wouldn't be counted?

MaxPepsi · 10/07/2013 17:15

We would need to know what country you are in to help further.

Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 10/07/2013 17:18

It's not exactly moneylaundering as it's not the proceeds of crime - it's half of the savings that they built up during the marriage.

However she won't know that it doesn't come under moneylaundering legislation so I can use this as a reason!

I think I'll suggest to her that she sets it up in trust for school fees for the children - she can use a flexible trust with her as settlor and trustee and then when all has died down, she will have the power to revoke the trust if she needs the funds for other things.

I can even give her a draft trust form to soften the news - she can run it past the shit hot solicitor as I'm sure she'll be having a few meetings with him in the near future.

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Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 10/07/2013 17:18

Not too far Max - ROI.

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rootypig · 10/07/2013 17:26

It is fraud. If I were her, I would be tempted. He sounds like a total arse. If I were you, I wouldn't want to be involved. So imo neither of you is BU.

I would be honest with her and say that you're anxious about your job and being implicated in any wrongdoing. (I wouldn't lie about moneylaundering, presumably she may inform herself on the subject.) My siblings and I have asked / refused things of each other in the past (eg borrowing money) and there has been no fall out where we've been as straightforward as possible. It sounds like a shit situation for her, but comfort yourself with the thought it sounds like she has the best representation money can buy. And there will be other (legal) things you can do to support her.

sweetsummerlove · 10/07/2013 17:34

erm. can she not 'spend it' I.e take it out in cash. ..stuff it under her mattress ;)

Onesleeptillwembley · 10/07/2013 17:35

He sounds like an arse, but her hiding money, frankly, makes her as bad as him.

Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 10/07/2013 17:53

Just sent her this. Hopefully she doesn't kick off. If she does, well she can feck off!

"I really can?t put it in my name as technically it?s fraud ? is there no solution the solicitor can come up with?

(e.g. put the money in trust for the kids ? you can always revoke the trust later on if you are the sole trustee)

Take it out and spend it on something like jewellery that can be sold back later on? Put it under the mattress in cash?!"

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eurozammo · 10/07/2013 17:56

I agree - it is fraud and it's not a stretch of the imagination to say that this would most likely to break your terms of employment, it almost certainly would.

Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 10/07/2013 18:09

She's still asking - but says will ask our mum if I can't do it. Apparently this was all suggested the solicitor!

But going by an incident last month I can imagine DM saying no too!

Ok going to send the final refusal email...

"I?m still not comfortable with this ? I?ve actually got a clause in my employment contract about ensuring my finances are transparent and in order at all times, I can?t really risk it!

Sorry ? but if you need any other help let me know"

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Horsemad · 10/07/2013 18:14

I wouldn't be having any communication by email - it creates a trail. Speak to her in person.

Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 10/07/2013 18:19

Too late Horse (we're both in work and people around so can't speak by phone)

Anyway she has finally taken my refusal as final. Bloody money - more trouble than it's worth! (though I won't say no to winning the Lotto...)

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Horsemad · 10/07/2013 18:22

Glad you refused, you know it was the right thing to do.

ImperialBlether · 10/07/2013 19:00

I don't see why she can't be open and above board and say "Our savings are X. I am taking half and putting them into my own account."

Surely it's only wrong if she's taking his? Mind you, sounds like he's had his already.

TheCatIsUpTheDuff · 10/07/2013 19:45

If they do go to court, she will have to file a Form E, setting out everything she's got and backed up by evidence including 12 months' statements of all her accounts. If her ex thinks the numbers don't stack up, or notices that sums of money are being paid out, he will be able to ask her to explain what she's done with the money, and she will have to answer the question. If the court thinks she's being evasive it has pretty wide discretion to draw its own conclusions. So, if the money has ever been in her account, she might as well disclose it now rather than have her honesty called into question later.

Original poster

DontWantToDoTHis · 12/07/2013 14:01

No, he's had his half about a year ago.

But here in Ireland they take your current financial position into account when sorting out the separation - she subsidised him setting up his own company and is due a share of that (worked for them for free, provided childcare while he worked played on his computer ), and if it's seen she has savings in her account, her share will be correspondingly smaller (I think). I don't think they are going to court though?

Anyway she has her final answer from me, I think she's pissed off because it's been radio silence since!

I've had a short, quiet chat with my father about the situation, in case she railroaded them into doing it - she has form.

Turns out that she had asked them already and they were reluctant anyway, so I haven't changed their opinion, just backed it up
(I was a bit worried as they are nearly 70 and neither are from a financial background workwise so I was afraid they would agree without realising the full impact of it, but my worries were groundless).

So there may be a family blowup in the offing - I'm kinda out of the loop now but am watching with interest from the sidelines.

Thank you everyone for the advice!

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Original poster

DontWantToDoThis · 05/11/2013 19:09

Oh for fuck's sake.

Have just discovered last weekend that "D" sis DID get my folks to allow her to use their account to hide £££ - DF let it out.

He caught me by surprise & I didn't mince me words - just said "That's really fucking dangerous, it's fraud" (DM looked v taken aback, don't know if she had realised how illegal it is, it was him I warned.)

Can't believe how selfish sis is - she's put her 70 yr old parents in a rotten position.

Can't really do anything so hope my outburst made them think...

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justmyview · 05/11/2013 20:01

Tell them to give it back

If she wants the money in a safe place, could she set up a pension or bank account for their child(ren)?