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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbours want 10k (party wall / tree related) AIBU?

55 replies

GingerDoodle · 07/07/2013 11:10

This is my first AIBU so please be gentle.

Background. Neighbours almost continually do stuff to the house; often at weekends and late into the evening (we've had to abandon the house due to noise on occasion!). We've had boundary issues (over about an inch of garden - their issue not ours!) and privacy issues (they shaved their trees so there was effectively no fence between gardens, we gave them over a year as they said they would put up fences, then offered to pay to do it ourselves - the woman was very arsey about it and refused - we eventually put a fence up on our side and left it at that.)

There is a small 3m x 2m brick wall that borders our back garden before the fences start. Some on our side, some on theirs; they wanted it knocked down as they say its subsiding and said they would pay (asked us for permission in writing). No problem we said just let us know when your going to do it - they never responded and this was Feb. We know know it's a party wall so I'm guessing they have realised they need something more formal.

Fast forward to now. We are planning a single story extension and almost a month ago asked them if we could take the wall down and rebuild at the time of building the extension ad would cover the cost. They verbally agreed.
Last week we had our building surveyor round and he suggested that instead of rebuilding the wall then our extension next to it that we simply make the extension wall the wall iyswim. Neighbour responded to my txt and popped down, seemed ok with it but obviously wanted to check with his wife. His only concern seemed to be that it would limit light onto his patio for a few hours (which is true but this will happen regardless) so we offered to pay him to take his trees down completely as this would let shed loads more light into his garden all day. Obviously this benefits us as we won't need deep foundations but the suggestion was initially made for the purpose of his light.

Last night they responded! I started reading and was impressed - they were being reasonable, happy to agree to the party wall, happy to remove the trees and replace with 6ft fence, happy to discuss us potentially using their garage and garden for access!

They want to put up a small extension on what will be the new shared wall / our extension which i'm fine with (obviously the removal of the tress will be good for them / this too so the removal benefits us all in terms of foundations)

Then I got to half way down the fairly long email. They want 10k!!!! Partly for compensation of living with ugly trees for the last 2 years after they shaved their side because, they say, we were 'unwilling to discuss in a proper manner' the trimming or possible removal of the trees. Now I will be fair, when they moved in and mentioned taking the trees out I was not keen - because a) in their original shape there were a great fence and b) we'd only just paid £400 to have them trimmed (previous owner was an old lady and we were happy to help her out). If they had asked our thoughts after they had shaved them we would have not objected lol. In fact I even hinted at it when we put the fence up! In any case, they were / are their trees and they could do what they liked.

Waiting to speak to our building surveyor to see what he thinks before replying. Have no issue covering costs (would get quotes to ascertain this) and something in the way of goodwill but 10k (they gave no breakdown) is taking the mick in my opinion. AIBU to think this?

OP posts:
ChunkyPickle · 07/07/2013 12:32

Goodness, don't share your extension wall with them - better to lose a couple of feet than have to go through all this again (plus, if they're dedicated DIYers, all the drilling/banging etc that'll be happening on your shared wall)

Keep it as separate as humanly possible!

Chivetalking · 07/07/2013 12:37

They are taking the piss massively. I wouldn't pay them a brass penny.

Am I right in thinking they also want to use the wall of your new extension to tack something of their own to?

I wouldn't allow that either. I know it means kissing the possibility of a couple of extra feet on the kitchen goodbye but I really would limit engagement and joint works with these entitled jokers as far as I could. Far too much potential for tears further down the line.

fluffyraggies · 07/07/2013 12:48

My gut reaction is this: Do whatever it takes to keep your extension nothing to do with them physically.

I think you have become embroiled way too deeply with them (and their tree's) and need to step back right now and remove yourselves a bit.

Make sure your extension wall is all on your land - so nothing is 'shared', forget the cutting down of trees, and just pay extra for your foundations so the trees can stay in situ. for now.

If he wants to cut down his trees let him. It's not your responsibility. They are his, on his land. As to who's responsibility it is for the cost of any fencing on that side - it should be in the deeds. Where are the uprights of any other fencing around your land? Uprights of fencing should be on the side of who paid for the fence. The chances are he's responsible for fencing on the tree side anyway. Put up your own fence - again on your own land. It's worth a few feet/inches to be un-beholden to neighbours like this!

From the outside, having read the thread, this all sounds like an awful unnecessary mess and you need to simply, quietly, legally extricate yourselves from it. No arguments needed.

HeadfirstForHalos · 07/07/2013 12:49

I wouldnt give them a penny!

ENormaSnob · 07/07/2013 13:12

What fluffy said.

edam · 07/07/2013 13:21

What does your surveyor think is reasonable in terms of a party wall agreement? I have a vague idea that the person who wants to do works to a party wall may well have to compensate the person who owns the other side of the wall. But could be wrong. And surely 10K would be far too much for a garden wall!

Agree with fluffy, I'd keep your extension firmly within your own land to avoid getting dragged into disputes with unreasonable/greedy neighbours.

StealthPolarBear · 07/07/2013 13:26

I really really don't understand. Why are they expecting you to compensate them for living with trees that are on their land? Can someone explain it very simply please - ta :o

RoseFlowerFairy · 07/07/2013 13:32

I do not understand why someone would want compensation for living with their own tree's on their own land when they are a tree surgeon. Grin

This thread gives more detail.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/1796742-Neighbours-Party-wall-Extension-Trees

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes · 07/07/2013 13:48

sorry but the fact that you are even entertaining paying them to remove their trees off their land to give them more light when you have a fence and only want an extension is just beyond my comprehension. DO NOT pay them they are taking the piss. get on with your extension and enjoy your new kitchen

WeAreEternal · 07/07/2013 14:15

Have you received compensation from them for not having a big enough kitchen? Or having to put up with their noise?
I'm guessing no.
The trees are theirs on their property therefor it is their problem if they think they are ugly, is is also their problem to maintain them.

IIWM I would get what is going to be done down in writing, the trees removed and a fence put up, I would take it to them and ask them to sign in agreement.
I would then hire someone myself to have it done.

You can guarantee that if the neighbours company do it they will turn around and give you an invoice for £4.5K for the tree removal, £4.5K for the fence and £1K for extra items.

I think if you are paying the bill you are entitle to hire whom ever you want to do the work.

WestieMamma · 07/07/2013 14:26

We had 3 x 50ft fir trees removed last year. Tree surgeon went up them like a squirrel and had them down in less than 2 hours. Cost us £250.

EDMNWiganSalfordandBlackpool · 07/07/2013 14:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnneElliott · 07/07/2013 14:51

Cheeky feckers! They are getting a great deal from you already. Do not pay them this cost as they will keep coming back for more.
DH is the expert rather than me, but I understood that as long as the extension is on your land then it can be right up to the boundary? Ours certainly was. Refusing you a party wall should only mean losing a few inches and that would be well worth it.

Floralnomad · 07/07/2013 15:02

Your neighbours are bonkers and they wouldn't be getting a penny out of me .

SquinkiesRule · 07/07/2013 15:09

It's not compensation it's extortion. Cheeky beggars. I'd loose a few inches off the side of the extension just to not have to deal with them and keep it all the way on your own land, and refuse to allow them to connect their own extension to your new wall.

SHarri13 · 07/07/2013 15:18

Why do you have to pay for anything at all? I don't understand?

deepfriedsage · 07/07/2013 15:48

Ask for compensation for having to deal with their DIY.

jaymescglew · 07/07/2013 16:11

Sure, give them 10k. Of fuck-offs. The cheeky twats.

Inertia · 07/07/2013 17:10

I'd redo the extension plans so that you can keep it totally independent of them. Using a shared wall for both extensions is likely to give you no end of grief. Put up the with deeper foundations, otherwise they'll just delay the tree-removal and the delay will cost you more money.

Then just ignore the trees and fences.

KatyaRachmanova · 07/07/2013 17:12

And once again I am stunned at the sheer fucking cheek of some people. I read bits of the other thread. I still don't know why you would be paying to take down their trees and replace with a fence.

Don't pay them a penny. Keep your extension separate. (Oh and we have an extension, its a few inches away from neighbouring fence, not a few feet). Their 'ugly' trees are their own problem.

raisah · 07/07/2013 17:18

Speak to a solicitor & see what they advise and get them to send a letter politely telling them to fuck off. They are trying to pull a fast one from the sound of it.

WhirlyByrd · 07/07/2013 17:19

Why do you need to lose a couple of feet of kitchen? I believe it's 6 inches within your boundary. You'll need a party wall agreement if you are within 3 metres of their house but they don have any as if the work has been given planning permission. You may have to stump up for a separate solicitor and agreement but I would tell them to piss off - don't make it a party wall, keep it on your land and ten they can't so anything other than be pissed off and in the dark. Their trees, their problem.

digerd · 07/07/2013 17:35

They are definietely taking advantage/pulling the wool over your eyes.

They want to build an extension, therefore their trees must go and they want you to pay for it? Just because you are having your extension built first, they are fobbing you off that it is to your advantage not theirs. I wouldn't trust them with a party wall extension and as others have said I'd keep the extension wall on my side of the boundary and theirs on theirs, even if it does mean losing a few inches of room.

The council rules with fences are not always complied with and who owns which side is usually decided by neighbours at time of build completion.
Ours were built in 1961, and the info is always on the soliticors list to sellars when they sell to new buyers. It's not on our deeds.

lastnightiwenttomanderleyagain · 07/07/2013 19:24

OP, going into work mode here (Structural Engineer) and focussing purely on the foundstion depth/tree issue...

I assume you live in an area with quite a lot of clay in the ground? This would make the trees a bigger issue WRT foundations. I'd be very wary of ditching the trees and then going for the shallow foundations right away. You seem very well informed so assuming you know trees are a problem as they affect the moisture in thr soil. If you lop trees down, there can be a sudden step change in the soil moisture (trees no longer there to suck it up) which can cause mo vement in the soil. It does sort itself out over time and I'm not trying to alarm (it's not uncommon) but worth making sure your surveyor/engineer has factored it in, as it sounds like a significant factor to the negotiations with next door.

GingerDoodle · 09/07/2013 11:47

By way of an update - our building surveyor agreed they were bu so I am getting quotes for the trees and fence and will be politely pointing out the actual costs involved, declining the request and building on our side!

OP posts: