To ask if anyone has paid for a private education and has regrets?

[Moontime]

We will have to think about schools this year and I really don't know whether private schooling is something we should do. We can afford to. I don't mean to sound smug by saying that. I say it meaning if we can afford to then surely we should do the best we can for our DC.

Has anyone gone down the private school route only to realise after a few years that the local state school would have served their children just as well?

DS(11) starts at a private school in August. Ideally we'd send him to a local school but the one for our catchment is appalling and the decent ones are oversubscribed. I don't believe the argument that a bright child will excel wherever they go- at the local school approx 7% of 6th year leavers achieve enough Highers to go to university. The school has very much positioned itself as a vocational school which is fine, but I don't believe for a minute that only 7% have the ability to pass Highers!

The school only offers a basic range of Higher exams and a very limited range of Advanced Highers. At the moment DS would like to become a vet. Now I know it is highly unlikely that he will still want to be a vet by the time he starts uni, but as it currently stands, he would not be able to study this because the local school doesn't offer the required Advanced Highers for admission. Pretty much all of the science and engineering routes would be closed to him as well.

At the end of the day I don't care what he ends up doing so long as he is financially independent and happy. However, I'm not going to limit his options before he even starts high school in the way that the State system will if he's stuck at the local school. I can't see that I will regret private education for my children- will post again to update in 7 years

Sleepywombat Cumfy is broadly right IMO re: teachers. In fact I think it's a huge elephant in the room in the public v private debate. Many I know think excellent teaching makes no real difference especially in the early years, all that matters is that the teachers can relate well to children. I disagree. This is because I have seen what outstanding teachers can do that have both real academic prowess AND empathy, focus and great teaching skills (which should be a given anyway really as far as I am concerned).

Sure there are fantastic teachers, bright with great subject knowledge who want to teach where they will make a difference in poorer schools etc but these are in the minority. The fact remains that a teacher with indifferent academic qualifications from a third tier university etc that wants to teach in a top 50 independent school will increasingly find they don't make the cut. If you have a 2:2 in Maths or below from a non RG university or equivalent university and want to teach Maths somewhere like Guildford High or St Pauls you are unlikely to get the job. Put simply only the best teachers have the pick of the schools.

I know something - a little - about the teacher recruitment at Brighton College for example. IMO they only take the exceptionally bright staff usually with a proven track record and all the focus and enthusiasm, people skills and empathy you'd expect as a given.

Our local comp would take you with a poor degree in Maths from an ex Poly (just giving as an example, know not all ex Polys are poor). You'd not get far with the top 50 independents with this sort of level of qualification. They are grateful for what they can get.

Teachers I know at Ibstock Place, another great school (independent and probably not even top 50 as not that selective I believe) have degrees in the subject they teach from universities like Bristol (2:1 and above) and all A or A at A'level in academic subjects - at least 6 As at GCSEs and so on. They also have exceptional skills as far as pastoral care, teaching skills and empathy go etc. If you took a magnifying glass to the teachers' qualifications at the average state school you'd not find them to be so stellar.

Does that mean that the teachers at private schools are always better? Not necessarily but the odds are stronger they will be I think and one reason parents opt to go private. Ideally I'd have a teacher who was academically outstanding, a subject specialist (where appropriate) who was kind, empathetic, charming and a great influence and mentor for my child? Isn't that something we all want? The fact remains I am more likely to get a teacher like that a good private school than an average state school.

That assumes better academic qualifications equates to a better teacher. I'm not sure it does.

I would think really long and hard about this. I know you say you can afford it, but the financial implications are huge and like ukatlast said the fees never go down (always rise in line with inflation at least).
I suppose it really depends on what your local state school can offer as the opportunities at a private school are fantastic, but again you do have to pay for a lot of these extras (music lessons, LAMDA, learning support etc).
My DS has now finished year 13 having been in private education since year 3 and I'm not convinced he made the most of the opportunities made available to him (maybe a boy thing?), however DD just about to go into year 12 throws herself into everything and so seems to be getting better value for money!
Both DC very well rounded, polite and confident but I'd like to think that we had had some influence on that as well!

My DDs are both in private junior school. It costs just under £20k a year for the pair of them. All the local private schools (bar one) are nearer to me than my catchment state school which moved site a few years back.

It is co-ed with great academic results for the seniors. Our catchment school is also the SEN school. It is very new and a great facility but from what I hear from parents with kids there the standards are low. It's a shame.

No regrets but DH does moan about his lack of Aston Martin not that he'd ever spend that kind of money on a car

IMO arethereanyleftatall the very strong academic qualifications are the starting point and should be a given (certainly at secondary level in academic specialist subjects). Of course strong academic qualifications alone do not mean a teacher is 'better' but I would hope all teachers delivering academic subjects have strong academic credentials and ability themselves. Surely that goes without saying? They should also be able to impart knowledge, be personable and all I said upthread. The fact remains the best independent schools manage to recruit high calibre individuals for all sorts of reasons.

I am only surprised that so many don't think it important that teachers are particularly bright and academic (at secondary level delivering academic subjects). As long as they like children and are engaged, I am told by many, it's fine.

I used to do educational outreach work in London and spent 6 years visiting 100s of school (state and private) across the capital. I have been to some outstanding private schools where students were coached to become happy, successful and well-rounded human beings. I've also been to some private schools where the kids were obnoxious, demanding toffee-nosed brats and I wouldn't have sent my child there if you paid me. Likewise, I've been to some amazing state schools and some that were like bear-baiting pits. It's hard to generalise - do your research and trust your gut instincts, I'd say.

Agree with feedmewotsits.

Throughout this thread there are arguments for and against private schooling.

Assuming £30,000 a year for 13 years, that's nearly £400,000.

Could that be better spent?

For me, it depends on your child. Some will be fine in a great state school, some would do better in private. We have decided to play it by ear, at the moment the lovely local state school is wonderful, and DDs start to education could not have been better. If that changes, we'll reassess.

Pressed post too early. So, that's one year school fees saved so far to no detriment!

I think that all of those using the state system happily will post here and say, yay, it's all wonderful and paying is a waste of money. All of those paying vast sums will say, yay, it's all wonderful and state school is terrible.

As with everything, there are good and bad schools, there are children who thrive in large classes and do well regardless, and there are those who get lost and for whom a smaller environment is better etc etc etc.

I am involved in a Free School which is opening later this year and we have children transferring from private schools which are "too pushy, too middle class/too much nouveau riche influence/not value for money" whilst at the same time I have friends moving their children into the private schools from state schools because they perceive that their children will do better - it doesn't help that we are in an 11+ area and the competitive parenting is horrendous.

I was educated privately all of the way through, as was DH, and so many of our friends are privately educated - all doing a mix of state or private, or private prep in the hope of grammar secondary. Most people are very happy with their choices - even the ones who can afford private schooling easily but are using the state system. I have friends teaching in private schools who say that there are now a lot of 'first generation' parents educating privately and that the attitudes of the children (and parents) aren't quite what they were....in one local school here which is extremely expensive and has a lot of 'new money', the HT had to call a special assembly to tell the children that "the 11+ isn't an exam for poor people" because he felt they had such a sense of entitlement. Not at all what I would want for my children, despite having had a very privileged upbringing myself.

Horses for courses - once again, everyone makes their own choices based on their own circumstances, children etc...it's just a shame that there is the same old nonsense spouted on these state/private threads ad nauseam on MN. Just do what you think is best for your children and why worry what everyone else thinks?

my daughters in year 9, due to go into year 10 sept and gcses start, shes been at an all girls private school since year 7, she won a scholarship.
my biggest regret is sending her there, shes leaving nxt week and will start at a state school sept.
shes very much looking forward to it.
the education she received there was exceptional but at a cost to everything els.
being such a small school she has few friends, unused to social situations, been too sheltered, and has turnt into a little snob.
private may suit some but for my daughter, doesnt suit.

Mine went to a fabulous state primary. DS to a fab london indy at 8. DD to a top 100 cofe comp for two years (total disaster - once great school turning into a bear baiting pit). DD now at lovely indy. Neither of my DC are remotely snobby. One third at their schools are mega rich and relatively unflashy, one third are comfy well heeled middle class profs and one third have families making huge sacrifices.

Ime divides were biggest at the state schools mine attended.

Sleepywombat, you make excellent points.

It sounds like your PGCE course was a good one. IME I know plenty of teachers who were not the brightest at school and beyond. Many in our area had failed for the grammar years before and had very mediocre A'level results (I know these are not the greatest benchmarks). They were not generally those at the Russell Group universities. The cleverest went into industry, snapped up onto graduate training schemes as blue chip companies. I probably place too much emphasis on the academic side of things as far as teaching is concerned and I fully take your point that a good academic is usually not going to be the greatest teacher. (Although I would add it depends on the subject and level taught). I appreciate that this is changing and PGCE courses these days are more competitive than they once were. Abroad only the top 20% of graduates, sometimes only the top 10% of graduates, are considered suitable for a teaching career.

I think you can only teach as you yourself were taught and ideally those teachers out there should have had a rigorous education as a good starting point. Passion is also very important but I personally have seen far too many passionate and creative teachers who lack some very basic skills. The head of English who told me not to worry as they 'borrow them out' as regards computers etc. I am told by senior people in education that creativity and passion are all that matters. Mistakes and lack of knowledge really don't matter, things can be looked up these days and to be concerned about such things just shows how antiquated you are. Teachers can only be facilitators and ultimately your child is either smart or they're not and there's nothing anyone can do about that.

I am very old fashioned but I'd want an English specialist, for example, to have read most of the classics. They can, as I see it, enrich and inspire my child far more than someone who has read abridged texts at University. Of course there are good and bad teachers everywhere but if you look at the to 50 independent schools you will find that the majority of teachers are bright, enthusiastic, passionate about their subject and well educated (whether they have a degree or not). The bar is generally set much higher and the competition for jobs far more fierce. Sadly the same will not be true at the average comprehensive.

Aretheranyleftatall, 30k ?!

Are you kidding? Where do people get these numbers?

Our school is 6500 a year, secondary 10k.

Is 30k what people think private school parents spend?! No wonder you must think us a bit divorced from real life

I teach in a state school , I have a first from a top university and I am certainly not alone. I worked it out for a thread once but can't remember the exact figures, but most departments have someone who went to Oxbridge. I know this because each department is supposed to have an Oxbridge tutor. Each department will certainly have teachers with 1sts, we don't employ teachers who don't have a degree below a 2:1 which is linked to the subject that teach. Of the teachers I know in my school, most went to Russell Group universities.

I think strong academic qualifications are one of the necessary qualifications for an excellent secondary teacher.

Most of the people I know who have children in private schools are spending upwards of 20k a year.

The one near me us 24k junior and 36 senior.

£15k to £18k pa seems to be the average IMO.

...for senior school

We have paid 18' for top London day school and 15k for a surrey day school. Add about 3k pa each for expenses.

About 6k here for prep school and anything ranging from 9k to 35 k for secondary.

were in berkshire, secondary fees are 24600 pa

My DDs go to our local state school (was a 'High School' now an academy). They were given a choice. The local state schools here are very good. DD1 has just finished her gcses - grades not known but will be mainly As with a few As. DD2 will be taking her exams as linear gcses next year and is on target to get a mixture of As and As (probably more of the latter). The school has been excellent for them both. The pastoral care is good. Both have participated in maths and science competitions, and are active members of the school's music groups. They have also represented the school in sports teams. I have no regrets at all. BUT I do consider their school to be 'good' (as does OFSTED). If I didn't feel this way then we may have opted for private (although the local private school does seem to produce some arrogant and entitled children - a couple of DD1's friends go there :) )

My dh was sent to a private school while his older sister went to the local comp. This was because my dh was seen a bit of a slacker by his mum and she wanted him to achieve more! Dh says that he was often bottom of the class in his private school whereas he would have been above average in a state school. So this didn't help his confidence. And being a single-sex school he was very shy around girls. So he is not keen on private schools. But I do know a few mums who went to the local private girls school and did well and enjoyed it. They all seem like nice well-adjusted people!