To think you can't judge a child by their name??

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Would you judge a child by their first name?

Katie Hopkins on this morning was saying how she judged the children her children play with by their names.

There's a YouTube video but can't link it

I would be interested to know if you can apply similar tests to Indian and Pakistani names if we have any posters from those cultures. Does your name for example show your caste or religion?

You can judge a child's parent on their child's name because they picked it. And as the child is brought up by the parents according to their parent's beliefs, morals and ideals you could get some idea of what a child would be like.
A child called Tyson might not spend his days reading poetry.
Little Agamemnon might not be a champion of the Xbox at age 7.
Zhang Wei might not be a Welsh speaker.
etc.

A lot of the stuff about how 'the same names come up again and again in court/as troublemakers/in child protection work, etc' is probably due to confirmation bias.

Take for example 'the dreaded Calum'. Calum is a really popular name now so there are loads of Calum's. This makes the odds of a Calum being the 'naughty boy' in your/your child's class higher (than for less popular names). You take notice when Calum does turn out to be the 'naughty boy' (in your opinion) because it confirms your own stereotype (and in doing so reinforces your stereotype). You're also more likely to interpret Calum's behaviour as 'naughty' where for a child you don't negatively stereotype based on name you may well interpret the behaviour in different ways. This also reinforces your stereotype.

Whereas when little Thomas (a name you stereotype positively) is badly behaved, it doesn't reinforce your stereotype and you see it as an exception. (The same for when Calum's behave well; you see this as an exception to the stereotypical rule, and therefore disregard it). When Thomas is well behaved, it reinforces your stereotype.

It does not, however, mean that Calums are actually more naughty than children with names you approve of.

The fact that so many Irish names are considered déclassé on this is probably a hangover from the kind of anti-Irish racism that was so prevalent in the 1960s. Instead of putting up 'No Irish' signs people sneer at children being given Irish names. Same for the sneering at names generally associated with black communities, and names associated with the working classes.

The answer isn't for people to stop giving their children names associated with cultures that differ from middle class cultures in the Home Counties though. It really is for people to really reflect on what their prejudices are and stop pretending it's just about names...

Wiki mentions video of KH having sex in a field (but that's not Chavvy oh no...); am I allowed to tell DC to steer clear of people who get caught on broadcast video shagging in fields? I would have thought that was a lot better basis than worrying about forenames.

I have a very unusual name, never met another and only found others when I googled it and found them abroad - it sounds very posh and has always been a talking point. My mum had wanted a name no one else had and she found it in a book about Boaedicea and loved it. My best friend at school had an unusual Japanese name (wouldn't be unusual there) as her parents named her after their Japanese friend. Her name brought back happy memories and reminded them of a lovely person.

I think it's far more important to have a name that is personal to you and it's lovely to have a story behind it - whatever the name rather than fitting in with what is deemed middle class or timeless and not considered chavvy at that time.

In 1990 I met someone called Brittany - I thought it was the most beautiful name. It was when Britney appeared it was considered chavvy......but in another 50 years it could be considered beautiful.

DH and I chose our daughter's name because we wanted a name with a happy positive meaning. We think it is a beautiful name - it was inspired from our fave tv programme but it just felt right and she suits it. I think names are a very personal thing and it's quite sad reading how snobbish some people can be. I certainly do not judge any of my daughter's friends by their names. It just seems very very shallow.

The Chantel I know is a GP. Names become chavvy long after some people were given them.

I might judge the name but I wouldn't judge the child. Everyone forms opinions on names based on previous experience of who is likely to name their child a certain name, but I wouldn't stop ds playing with Kylie, Wayne, Montgomery-Marmaduke or Toyah. Unless they are not good playmates for other reasons but those reasons are universal nothing to do with perceived class.

katie hopkins is an absolute ANIMAL and i feel sorry for her children. If you ever see any pictures of them in the press they are never smiling and look very unhappy.

Why anyone is wasting any brain space on this topic. ALL children should be protected from any type pf prejudice whatever their background, religion and now name ? really?

Come on people get real ...

I agree Bugsaway. Who is Katie Hopkins anyway ?

One of DS's best friends is called Zayden. He's lovely and so are his parents. But again, the whole class thing is different here.

Fwiw I "suss out" anyone who wants my child to come play, whether they have children named Rayder or Alexander. And actually DS is allowed to play at Rayder's house but not Alexander's as Alexander is not well supervised and they have a pool and guns. Alexander is welcome at ours, however.

I think Katie Hopkins is hilarious TBH. She is a clever woman and she know swhat she is saying is outrageous.

In fact, anyone who wastes time deliberating over whether or not a particular name is chavvy is a bit sad.

I agree, though with what randomusername says

The fact that so many Irish names are considered déclassé on this is probably a hangover from the kind of anti-Irish racism that was so prevalent in the 1960s. Instead of putting up 'No Irish' signs people sneer at children being given Irish names. Same for the sneering at names generally associated with black communities, and names associated with the working classes.

Guess what, I have an Irish name and so do all of my children. Frankly, though, I couldn't give a flying f**K about what people think of our names :)

yes shes essentially making money out of this in the long run ... ask yourself how dumb are people to even entertain the idea ... further how stupid do all these mothers look now? think about how utterly stupid you all sound

katie hopkins is no friend of women and now seemingly no friend of children

pure ANIMAL

This thread feels a bit like we're feeding the troll. She probably has aspirations of a private secondary school for her little darlings, and not much in the way of talent to pay the fees, so is doing a bit of a Samantha Brick making ridiculous commnets to keep herself in the press.

She came across in the clip I watched as being a bit unhinged to be honest.

I think the people born into money who are normally down to earth will be looking at KH, thinking what a twat.
WC people will look at her and think what a twat.
Either way she's a twat.

In a way though she is right, I too have met people like her her judge children and parents because of their chosen names.
I suppose its entertaining if you like somebody making a twat out of themselves.
I loved Hollies end to the interview. No thanks etc. Just "Stop it there".
Fantastic.

Didn't see interview but agree with tiggyd

you can judge a child's parent on their child's namr because they picked it

Based on this I am glad I chose to give my children non-British names!!
Then they won't be "assigned" to a social class and branded from birth...

YANBU. My name is Dale and I'm female. I get judged on it all the time, and it's just plain irritating. Although, I do like having quite an unusual name.

I went to school with a girl called Dale, I always though she had a cool name

People should not judge a child by it's name; After all, No child chooses it's own name. A freind of mine always thought that babies should be given a number until they could choose their own name! What a horrible thought

sunshine

People shouldn't judge a child by their name but it is disingenuous to say people presume a particular background when hearing a particular name. Tarquin and Lacie-Mae are examples of names automatic assumptions are made about.

*disingenuous to think people don't.

My 'suss out' comment seems to have hit a nerve! Can I add in my defence that there is a child whose name is a creatively-spelled version of 'Destiny' who would be welcome in my house any day of the week, and several Jacobs who wouldn't

My point is that when somebody gives their child a silly name there is a greater chance that they are silly people. Therefore in my head I am checking them out more before I would let my child go to theirs. I suspect many people would have the same thought process, but are just less honest about it.

As for the unfortunate Casino mentioned upthread, my initial suspicion was that her parents were almost certainly fuckwits to name a child Casino. In this case my surmise was correct.

Galaxymum good post about reflecting on what our actual prejudices are, and to stop pretending it's about names. I guess I don't modern/unisex/McAmerican names, so maybe because I try to follow the rules and be traditional and play the game, I feel confused by people with as I would see it bad taste but really what is hard to fathom is that they don't give a fuck about tradition, class, spelling! Very good point you make there and it has made me think.