what shall we do?

[MINNACK]

the situation with our sons and GF's has changed in that the younger son and his girlfriend have turned things around and are now contributing around the house etc and things are much improved - they actually care about it all and have worked with us to resolve the problems.

sadly, our eldest son just walked out. he went 'out' to the pub with his GF one friday in early may and has simply not returned!

he then proceeded to write nasty texts and emails telling me and my hubby what awful parents were are and that we were depressing and boring and never helped him. we have just lost my sister through a tragic operation that went wrong and we have been very hard hit by the recession etc and have just about held onto our business. we are self employed and have been for 30 years.

i have been particularly targetted by him and he is even taken to displaying photos of himself cuddled up in a blanket drinking cider with his GF mother at glastonbury recently through his facebook. i dont use fb but my other son showed me the pictures of him having a fabulous time with his new mum and family.

we have set him up in a landscape business and we let him have the use of machinery which we bought through finance and got him contracts to work at etc and he still says we have done nothing for him. we have struggled financially for a long time but always kept a warm safe home with lovely food and home comforts and allowed his previous GF of 5 years to virtually live here and we fed and watered her too and took her on our family holidays free of charge etc. he dumped her on the saturday and then was dating again the following monday. he said he was going to give girls a miss then he brought home the other gf who is 28 - he is 23. she told him she was 24 then 25 then 26 - she is 28!

she cam to visit us all through the time we were stunned by the loss of my sister and my own ill health but still we allowed her into our home - only for her to completely ignore me and my hubby, his brother and gf and our youngest daughter. she totally failed to acknowledge us in our own home.

he is behaving in such a disgraceful way i just dont know what to do about it all. it has broken our hearts and we feel utter failures. he is gloating in these photos as he knows we will see them and it particularly breaks my heart to see him literally cuddled up with this other mum. he knows i am a soft person and how much i love him - but how can your own son do this to you?

Did you express anything negative about the age gap, that may of been repeated back to her?

He is just pushing himself out of the nest, and expressing his frustrations with life, if he didn't feel secure that you loved him he wouldn't dare,

I hope you are getting support with your loss,

could you plan a fun thing to do together?

he told me he was very worried about the age gap and asked what i thought and i said i thought it a bit too big and he said he was not going to go out with her because of it.

i cannot grieve because of all the upset with him and the effect its all had on the rest of us.

fun? too depressed for fun .....
thanks for your thoughts.

Well if you did say you thought the age gap was too big, that will of come up in their conversation, there is nothing she can do to change that, so she is left knowing you disapprove,

and your son is caught in the middle, and demonstration his rejection of your actions, with justifications thrown in, vicious circle.

If you can find a way to communicate you are pleased they make each other happy, it might (worth a shot) start an improvement in relations.

i cannot grieve because of all the upset with him and the effect its all had on the rest of us

Transposing the effects of your loss onto your son's situation and your relationship is a delay tactic, if you hold him responsible for your processing he becomes the cause, untenable for him.

You seem to be resenting him getting support else where, and perceiving normal things such as up loading photos to FB of himself having fun, as a direct slight towards you.

He should not of lashed out in frustration, you need to create a situation where you can rebuild a relationship,

the situations that caused your sister's death and your ill health are things you have no control over, you have to try to focus on the positive things you can have control over, it will help you move forward,

try to meet your son on neutral territory,a nice coastal walk is always a good place to just be together, take some hot chocolate and try to focus on the positive.

and be kind to yourself, there are so many stages to grief, it takes as long as it takes to go through them.

good luck.

If I were you I would back off and let them get on with it, I really dont think the age gap was any of your business - my own dd has married a lovely man 5 years younger they were 27 and 22 - now 5 years later still very much in love.

Just let him know that the door is always open and you love him but dont be a doormat, you shoyuld demand and expect to be treated with respect in your own home.

Back off.

My folks set my brother up in business and rather than work his arse off to pay them back he throws it in their face at every opportunity. From their PoV he's ungrateful in the extreme, from his, though he's grateful deep down, he feels they are controlling his life. The only solution is not to.

It's such a shame, I jokingly told my mum she'd backed the wrong horse... it didn't go down well.

You've done nothing wrong at all OTHER than to try and please him, and maybe you've gone too far in that, allowed him to expect everything to be handed to him AND have control.

Fortunately, I managed to negotiate 'terms' between my brother and my folks, if my brother starts paying off X amount of the debt each month, my folks will not advise unless asked, comment on plans, criticise or in any other way give opinions about his lifestyle choices. It's an uneasy peace, and very difficult (can you imagine their response when my brother declared he was taking 4 weeks off at the busiest time of year to go travelling with his new girlfriend?) so long as he pays (an actual pitiful amount) off some of his debts each month, theire mantra is "That's nice dear".

We'll see how it pans out.

thanks for interesting feedback

just for the record i never said we had a problem with the age gap - our son went on and on about it and stated outright he wouldnt touch her with a barge pole because of it! he kept asking what i thought and i just said what i thought - that i thought he was right as i knew it was something he was upset about. i do think she is too old for him and if you met them you might agree she is old before her time and he is only a young 23.

anyway - i know we have prob ruined him and spoilt him by giving him everything - we never wanted to control him, we just expected a little consideration and respect in our own home. basic courtesy etc. instead all we have had is contempt.

while my sister, his favourite auntie as dying in hospital he walked out when i asked him to stick around to support us all and said he did his duty the previous weekend by staying around with us then. he promptly went out to a party all weekend.

i am just going to keep away and see what happens. i wont be apologising thats for sure.

Minnack, You say '..his favourite auntie...' could it is possible that he too might be grieving - in his own way.

I think he is crying out for a reaction. If it was me (and I have had difficult times with DS1 now 20) I would write a letter saying how you feel, telling him how much he is loved and finishing by telling him how you would like things to be in the future. No pressure, no ultimatums, tell him everything and let him know you will stay out of his life until he wants you in it. keep up contact via whatever means... fb, letter, text, phone but keep it to facts and pleasantries, try and act as if he is living a 'grown up' life elsewhere and smile a lot. as long as he knows you love him and the door is open he will eventually mature enough to come back. enjoy the family you still have at home.

Give him space, don't contact him but let him contact you in his own time. Be careful what you say to him because anything can be turned against you. It seems like his gf is threatened by your family so is turning him against you so tread carefully. She has pushed your family away & has replaced yours with hers, she is a negative influence in your son.

People grieve differently, remember. Maybe the party was his way of coping, not an 'i don't care' reaction.

i have written to him in a gently way and expressed our feelings and still he is spouting back nasty things......he is in complete denial and will not accept any blame for anything at all. he denies that gf is rude and has disrespected us - all the rest of the family have witnessed it themselves, yet he wont accept it at all. we are not doormats and i for one, and yes, even his own mother is going to cut my losses after all this as we cant take anymore. just because we are parents doesnt mean we have to be held over a barrel - i know the risk about grandchildren etc if he ends up marrying her - but that is up to him, i am not going to break my heart anymore about him. she is not a nice woman, why should i just roll over and take all their crap. they have shown us utter contempt - so time to call it a day.

i should have typed 'favourite' auntie - as i dont believe he cared at all when she was dying - his behaviour said so and after he wasnt there to support the family or his cousin whos mum had died. grief - thats no excuse i dont think - we are all full of grief but dont go around trashing our nearest and dearest. i think i have created a very spoilt unkind person - thank god i have another lovely son and daughter who are also distraught by eldests behaviour. he has let himself and all of us down and all his business contacts round here and customers - everyone is upset with him and he has done all this for a woman he only knew for 5 weeks! madness and actually unforgiveable this time. sorry for sounding harsh but us parents have feelings too and i dont think its all about the kids all the time.

He's not a kid - he's a grown man.

You need to let him get on with his business on his own now and don't look at his FB.

Just leave the door open for when he grows up and realises how badly he's behaved.

hes clearly not a grown up man - thats the problem 23 going on 12.....

he can get on with his life thats fine by us - we not on fb just other family members show us stuff but we dont normally care for fb so yes will not look at that anymore and his gf clearly did it on purpose. she hadnt posted anything for months then just those photos....nice woman!

anyway...got to past caring now to be honest

self preservation now

i think i have created a very spoilt unkind person
No. He's old enough to take responsibility. If it were nurture rather than nature, your other children would be the same.

thank you NannyOgg.