To feel sad to see 5 year old girl in hijab

[INeedSomeSun]

Probably will get flamed for this & iabu as its not my business.
I am not racist in any way. I am Asian myself and have many Muslim friends.

Growing up, I never saw any muslim girls with hijabs. This is a trend which has been growing since the late 90s.

I know that the meaning behind the hijab is to protect modesty and show committment to Islam. It is supposed to be the girls/womans decision after much thought and dedication.

At 5 years old they are still getting changed in the classroom for PE and she won't be able to do this now with boys around. How will she play and do PE freely? She has been singled out by the views of her parents.
Also, she will barely know what religion means, so she has not made an informed decision for herself.

Normally she is chasing about with my DS and other kids before school.Today she was just stood there, perhaps embarrassed or told not to?
I felt very sad

YANBU. I work in a very mixed community with a large Muslim population and most of the young girls (ie under 10) wear headscarves. I find it very sad. I also wonder if the men realise this is sending out a message that they can't be trusted not to see children as sexual beings. Why does a child need one?

I'm totally with France on this one. People get away with so much in the name of religion but it's 'racist' to speak up about shit practices.

Mutilate their genitals, cover them head to foot in scarves to completely dehumanise them, force them to marry while they should still be playing with dolls. Sorry, I have no respect for that bollocks.

Who told FrauMoose off by saying that her statement was a totally different subject?

It is not.

Yes the hijab is a religious symbol and yes, women are meant to be covered to prevent men from catching a glimpse of their bare flesh as this might encourage lustful thoughts towards another woman, which is sinful. As we all well know, men cannot control their sinful urges and woman should be punished for being natural temptresses (Adam and Eve story anyone?).

But why should they feel the need to protect their pre-pubescent daughters from these lustful men?

And actually, although it is not linked to religion, I find it just as offensive to see little girls wearing sparkly boob tubes or t-shirts that say 'Sexy Babe' on them.

As a society we are sexualising our children in a very different way. You could say the Islam religion is also sexualising people by assuming that men cannot control their thoughts and urges; by assuming that the woman is immediately at fault by being this object of sexuality and those who make children wear the hijab are also presuming that their children are sexualised.

I find both to be distressing. You hardly hear a mutter about young girls wearing inappropriate clothing because it's become acceptable now, hardly worth a muster. Rape victims are still thought by some to have brought it on themselves and drunk women are still considered to be fair game.

So who the hell are we to start criticising someone else's culture?

Let's sort out the issues in our own backyard before casting judgement on our neighbours.

That's another thing though. If a child begins puberty quite early (primary age) is it not really intrusive to the child to have it blatantly spelled out by the sudden wearing of the hijab?

And whilst we are beating our breasts in horror about child marriage let me remind you of the Jeremy Forrest thread where many posters were of the opinion that a girl who was groomed from the age of 13 not only went with him willingly but was actually responsible for her own actions and his.

What makes our society so morally perfect that we can criticise other societies?

So how come the rape statistics in Pakistan and India are through the roof compared to here?

So dressing modestly doesn't ensure the men dress like animals does it really?

On and actually its quite acceptable to criticise any culture you like actually.

craps'if your snarky remark about visiting doctors to discuss medical problems of religious communities was aimed at me, it so happens that our GP is also a friend and it was in the context of sunscreen and general avoidance of sun that it cropped up. No compromise of patients' confidentiality if that was going to be your next offering.

Religion= control and power exclusivity to ensure through rules and fear that people confirm and don't question or complain.

Helps keep people ignorant, unthinking, compliant.

All religions I am aware if are run by men and have mysogynist and dubious child safe guarding tendencies.

Most involve collecting money for membership and involve fear and intimidation and shame.

I am Muslim, I wear hijab. I think it should be a choice made post-puberty by the individual if they wish to wear it or not.

Dd likes to use my scarves as fancy dress, that's it.

So YANBU, I do not like seeing little girls wearing hijab on a daily basis.

However, I don't think the parents are doing it because they think their daughters are alluring, they're doing it as a way of instilling religious practice from an early age. Not how I'd go about things, mind.

Finally, it is interesting that there is never the same level of concerns about Sikh boys in Patkas or Sikh men in turbans.

Re rickets and vit D deficiency - I'm pale skinned, spend a lot of time outside (walk 5 or 6 miles most days between nursery/town/activities, 1yo and 4yo so in park a lot, need to get out for sanity and to prevent house being trashed, etc etc). I have taken 200% RDA vit D supplements daily since starting TTC in 2007, throughout pregnancy and breast feeding. I was quite surprised to discover late last year that my total exhaustion and joint pain was more likely to be from vit D deficiency than from the DC - I was lucky I had an osteopath who suggested it and a GP who agreed to do blood tests. Since both DC were BF until 1, we were advised that they should also take supplements as it was likely they'd be deficient.

Anyway, that's a bit OT. OP, YANBU, I once had a student who kept fainting due to overheating. But at least she was old enough that it was her choice! Bloody inconvenient and disruptive though... If there's one way to guarantee drawing attention to yourself, it's keeling over in a warm classroom. Worse still if you're on the large side, the girls in the class can't lift you and it sparks a debate amongst your classmates as to whether the boys would be allowed to touch you in order to carry you out for some fresh air!

The same point was made about Scottish children and rickets.

And actually, I think it is very hypocritical to criticise a culture when ours culture has a pretty appauling record of the sexualisation of young children and misogynistic attitudes.

I think it's wrong to see women and girls as sexual objects and I think that the Muslim religion is wrong for encouraging this view and that our society is wrong for also encouraging it, albeit in a different way.

But I think it's worse to make out that our society is somehow better when it clearly is not.

YANBU. I don't like seeing women of any age in such a thing. It is a device in which men control women. Simple as that.

Don't think anyone is criticising just Muslim societies, I certainly am not. No society is perfect is it?

Criticising one isn't praising the other.

There are mysygonistic vile practises in all societies but covering up women to ensure they don't inflame men or for modesty or for any of the other reasons given is controlling.

It's all very well saying its a woman's choice but that's clearly not the case in a Pakistani village is it??

Good grief, where do all these men who can't control themselves, spring from?

If the headscarves etc are meant to keep the lustful glances and grabby hands away from female modesty, then why don't all the religions suggest wearing them. Or local councils. Or whoever.

Because them evil men get everywhere, you see. Just look around, I bet there's one lurking just behind the third bush. [aargh]

Isn't it a woman's job to make sure she is not dressed provocatively, or she'll be 'asking for it'. The honour killings because an ankle was shown. Why do these happen?
Rhubarb, what do you think?

EDMN - hello fellow northerner! Yes, women are persecuted in many religions and it's a view that still carries some weight today unfortunately. You would not believe how many women supported Jeremy Forrest and were of the view that a child under his care was somehow just as much to blame, if not more, for his actions. Because she was a girl and girls are supposedly "more mature" for their age, says the age-old paedo excuse.

Our society produces padded bras for little girls, skimpy knickers, revealing tops with risque slogans, tight skinny jeans, high heeled shoes, make-up, etc. In short, it encourages girls to show off their bodies from a very young age.

The Muslim culture encourages their little girls to cover up their bodies from a very young age as the woman's body is sinful.

Both are equally bad, both discriminate against women but somehow one is more culturally acceptable than the other?

I think not.

Rollmops, answer your own question. I'm sure you have one.

Criticise all you like but don't forget the position you are starting from. That of belonging to a society that sexualises children and encourages the notion that girls are mini-seductresses who groom their own teachers and who are completely responsible for having under-age sex with older men. Cause it's all their choice isn't it?

Reminds me of that cartoon which depicted a woman in a bikini walking past a woman in a burkha and a thinking how it's sad that she has to dress to please her male-orientated society whilst the woman in the burkha was shown to be thinking exactly the same thing about the woman in the bikini.

She may get rickets. YANBU.

Oops, I see rickets has been raised...

I share your views, children should be allowed to be children. Personally I think its a form of cruelty to deliberately single a child out like that in a school where other children have to wear the uniform. Children can be so mean sometimes.

Poor girl.

I have seen Indonesian baby girls in prams wearing hijab and at the other extreme Khaleej youngsters dressed like spice girls.
It's the parents/ families decision .

TheRhubarb, agree generally with you but my dds are teens and wear makeup, skinny jeans and right tops.

That's their choice. I don't control them and have absolutely no problem with this as a woman should dress as she sees fit. Not how her father or brother or some priest/ imam or what have you says.

Men are not to be controlled or corralled. The law is there to prefect women and girls from rape and assault.

I too was horrified at some of the comments re the child in the Jeremy Forrest case. The perpetrator is always the guilty party not the abused.

If dressing modestly calms men down then why are the rape stats in Pakistan and India so horrendous?

I have no problem with people wearing religious dress when they have made an informed choice that is what they want. A 5 year old cant do that.

I thought it was normal for them to only start wearing religious dress from puberty?