Is it right to make a woman feel unclean?

[camel1]

I was saying 'thank you' to a male colleague and touched his upper arm as a reinforcement of that thanks. He recoiled in disgust, his body language, his facial expression and his yelp surprised me so much that I apologised profusely. The incident happened in front of many children, as I am a teacher at a school. And within a minute he had shook hands with a male colleague. Whether it was his intention or not, I felt that he felt I was unclean. I was/am greatly upset by this. I understand that his cultural or religious beliefs does not permit him to touch women, or vice versa. However, I have lived in many different countries and cultures, and I adhered to their cultural rules and would never have reacted in such an offensive way. What do you think?

[Boomba]

Like many people piglet??

I have never touched a colleagues arm by way of a thank you. Nor, them me

[pigletmania]

I know craps but he did not have to be rude he could have apologised and explained that he's such and such and cannot have ohysical contact with another woman

[Pinkflipflop]

But op knew that physical contact with a woman is not allowed and she touched him anyway.

[pigletmania]

Yes booma, when talking with people sometimes they tap my arm, especially if heir my friends, have you never seen this!

[Eyesunderarock]

'What would she say to her line manager if complaining?'

That she was greatly upset by the response of her colleague and found it offensive. The LM could then discuss the incident with the colleague, and her and mediate between them to reach an understanding as to what happened and why and what the procedure should be in the future.
Or OP could just think ' I made a mistake, I won't do it again' and move on.

[pigletmania]

Some eople are very touchy some like me are not, I woul not do what op did, bu I would no have acted like her collegue

[ninani]

Why is everyone being so harsh??

I know many women who would not shake hands with men but if a man touched them the same way that the OP touched the man they would just turn shy and blush. It's not about being unclean but about embarrassment.

OP, you didn't know and even if you did you probably acted out of impulse so his behaviour was EXTREMELY rude. Other cultures like to stress how "cold" English or other Northern European people are but when they are met with warmth they still don't like it.

OP don't worry, I am sure he embarrassed himself enough.

[Boomba]

Friends, yes. Unknowns or just colleagues, definitely no

With a friend...the boundaries are already known. You know what level of physical contact is appropriate for them

[ZZZenagain]

His reaction was too extreme and public to be polite. He should not have embarrassed you in front of children and other staff members. The polite thing to do IMO would be to gently explain in a quiet voice that it is uncomfortable for him to be touched and you would not do it again and no one need feel offended or embarrassed. It is a situation which he needs to find a calmer, more polite way of responding to, in particular in a work setting.

I don't think you should have apologised, although if he had responded as I set out, naturally you would apologise. A little bit of courtesy goes a long way

[Gruntfuttock]

How did he respond to your profuse apologies, OP?

[Eyesunderarock]

'His reaction was too extreme and public to be polite'

Others have made the point that it was probably an instinctive response, as the OP startled him. Rather like screaming when a spider drops on your arm unexpectedly.
Not me, I love spiders.

[pigletmania]

Unless its a colleague you know well and you know would feel comfortable with that

[Boomba]

Good question grunt

[Boomba]

Yy piglet exactly. This is not the scenario here

[pigletmania]

He was rude and impolite, you apologised yet it seemed that he did not accept your apology and offer an explanationas would be the norm.

[ReginaPhilangie]

You know what, I don't think YABU at all! I think he's rude man actually. I fucking hate all this religious nonsense about can't touch the opposite sex here, covering up there, oh no there's a blue person over there. It's a load of fucking bollocks made up by men thousands of years ago to keep women down and make them know their place. How is it okay for him to recoil from your touch yet shake hands with another man seconds later? All that says is "woman, unclean, temptation must stay away from this harridan". Honestly this is the 21st century yet it's somehow still ok for women to be treated like a piece of shit because of fucking outdated misogynist "religious beliefs". I would have asked if meant to be so rude actually, how offensive can you be.

[ReginaPhilangie]

he meant to be

[camel1]

Oh yes there would secondcoming. The issue with me is treating people equally regardless of race, creed, colour and in this case gender!!!

[sonu678]

I think the man was rude, and offensive and all sorts of other words like that, and should apologise to you, in writing, and urgh.... what a horrible horrible horrible man.

I used to live in a society where it was quite usual for some men not to look at a womans face when talking to her, they would look at the ground, or to the side of her face at the wall, or whatever, but never at her face. I understood that it was just an extrapolation of how men who want to look at breasts, but keep their eyse firmly on the face because talking to a womans breasts is rude, and in the culture of these men it the face was the breast equivalent, so they were actually being polite, as they saw it by looking at the wall. But it drove me bonkers. However, as the conversation itself was respectful, I would suck it up, and get on with it. The op's incident isnt acceptable

[burberryqueen]

but touching at work is inappropriate whatever the religion/culture of toucher or touchee, and as someone else so rightly pointed out, if this man was not of a different nationality/culture to the OP, there would be no thread right?
this whole 'unclean' idea she is promulgating is purely from her own mind, reflecting her own assumptions, nothing else.

[hackmum]

Stuff like this is all about context - the OP was touching this guy's arm in the context of saying "thank you". When you thank someone, you are putting yourself in a humbler position than them. You're not being aggressive or jokey or flirtatious. There is a polite way to respond to a "thank you" which is to say "not at all" or "you're welcome". If he really objected to being touched, he could then have added, "I'm sorry, but please don't do that again - my religion doesn't permit contact between the sexes". Instead what he did was rebuff the OP's gesture and the meaning behind it (ie thank you). Rude and unpleasant, in my view.

[lustybusty]

I'm with a few other posters... I am non religious and female, and unless I knew you extremely well, I'd react in a similar way I'm afraid. I just don't like people invading my personal space without invitation (or at least preparation). If someone extended their hand for a handshake, I think "ok, handshake" and all is fine. Of they just grabbed my hand and shook it I'd think "OMG WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING", probably jump away and wince. It's MY body and I alone can choose who touches it and where. I do, however apologise profusely to the unwelcome toucher, along the lines of "oh, sorry, you startled me" to an unknown person, or "I'm sorry, I don't like being touched" to someone I know well. And no, it doesn't have to sexual in the slightest - there's an openly gay bloke at work who will stroke my upper arm when asking if I'm ok... He's lovely, he's kind, he's being reassuring and caring, but I still don't like it!! OP, maybe you ought to work on the principle of not touching unless you KNOW it won't upset someone?

[Boomba]

How did he respond to your profuse apology OP?

[SoupDragon]

Mountain out of a molehill IMO.

You touched him instinctively. He reacted instinctively. You think he was rude and offensive. He probably thinks the same of you.