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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

holidays in term time

248 replies

ruledbyheart · 28/06/2013 22:43

Yes probably am being unreasonable but I am looking at booking our first family holiday next year only to a haven holiday camp but thought it would be nice for the DC to have a holiday and for me it would be the first since I was 16, But 2 of my 4 dc will be in full time school only reception and yr1 and I have found out I cannot take them out in term time.

I have looked into the prices and to go term time it would only cost us £150 but if we stuck to the school holidays the price quickly jumps to £450.

I think its disgusting as a family on an extremely low income (less than 12000PA) we cannot afford to go on holiday, factoring all our costs I need to save about 100pm to be able to afford to go in term time which will be very tight and impossible to save enough to go during school holidays.

WIBU to just take the children out of school for one week its not like at the ages of 4 and 5yrs they would miss much or do I not risk it (Ive heard rumours you can be fined?) and have to wait a lot longer for a holiday?

OP posts:
pettyprudence · 29/06/2013 22:21

Slightly off topic but has this "Fine" been legally challenged by anyone yet? Looking at the legislation and the councils interpretations, it seems a bit wishy-washy - lots of "may's" and "mights". Are these fines actually preventing long term/frequent unauthorised absences? Sorry, there is probably a huge thread on here about this.

At the moment, my dm's school is one which has an issue with unauthorised absences and not a single fine has been issued under the current rules.

englishteacher78 · 29/06/2013 22:23

Some LAs have fined the parents of truants and some have had jail terms. All unauthorised absence is truanting as far as the law is concerned I believe. So, in short, fines have been given already but not to 'nice, middle class' parents. I don't think it's been seriously challenged by a 'decent' lawyer. Watch this space...

scaevola · 29/06/2013 22:24

"leave for holidays during term time is not going to be authorised full stop"

Only if your HT decides to do it that way. There is no mention of holidays in new rules. Just exceptional circumstances. If you can persuade your HT that your need for a holiday is exceptional, it can still be authorised. And that it is up to HT, and no-one else, is clear.

scaevola · 29/06/2013 22:28

Fines have been in use for a decade. prh47bridge commented on another thread:

"In 2011/12 (the most recent year for which statistics are available) over 41,000 penalty notices were issued in England. Around 6,500 of these cases ended up with the parent being prosecuted for non-payment."

I suspect that no legal challenge has been mounted because the law is clear. No idea what impact this regime has had on attendance in last 10 years.

2712 · 29/06/2013 22:32

But, as has been pointed out already, it is still cheaper to take DCs out of school, and then pay the fine, than pay for a holiday when the school is closed.
So I would risk it.

pettyprudence · 29/06/2013 22:32

From a quick google, this "fines" do not appear to apply to scotland and wales?

2712 · 29/06/2013 22:33

Also. if 41,000 parents were fined in one year alone, you will not be the only one doing this. What does that tell you?

Bejeena · 29/06/2013 22:41

You have to look at this from the point of view of Haven, who are a business. £450 for accommodation and facilities for a family of 6 for a week is only £65 per night which actually isn't expensive really. However out of school holiday times Haven probably don't get as much business and so rent out their accommodation at a cheaper price, better getting some money in than nothing. That is what makes the price difference and £150 for a week is a real bargain, not the fair price.

scaevola · 29/06/2013 22:42

It's post devolution: fines were introduced in 2003.

RoseandVioletCreams · 29/06/2013 22:45

why would any HT be happy with absence when it reflects on their oftsed reports.

scaevola · 29/06/2013 22:48

The targets for attendance remain unchanged. So in terms Ofsted it won't make any difference in terms of numbers from previous years to next ones.

englishteacher78 · 29/06/2013 22:55

The targets may be unchanged but anecdotal evidence (yes I do know the plural of anecdote isn't data) suggests they are being more strictly applied. A lot of HTs feel under a lot more pressure at the moment - seems particularly the case at primary school level - lots of vacancies for Primary HTs in the TES.

gobbin · 29/06/2013 23:02

Taking kids out during term time for holidays is a pain in the arse for continuity in the classroom. I hope you wouldn't expect me to use my breaks to help your child catch up, seriously.

Permanentlyexhausted · 29/06/2013 23:05

Yeah, I know there is still leeway for circumstances which are considered exceptional. I made it rather bluntly but my real point was that good attendance alone is not going to be enough to get your termtime holiday authorised.

Sharptic · 29/06/2013 23:08

I always believed pre children, that I would not allow my children time off school for holidays.

But here I am, 7 yrs on, doing just that. Just a day or 2 (a week was not authorised by ht) because we both work, yet can't afford a holiday in August.

We can book a weekend in December and manage. But we couldn't afford a summer holiday.

I am really pissed off about the recent legislation, I don't want a cheap summer holiday, I would like staggered school holidays for each county so the travel industry won't double the cost of a holiday due to demand.

SuburbanRhonda · 29/06/2013 23:12

Don't mean to pry, sharptic, but if you're both working, where are you looking that you can't afford a summer holiday? re you looking abroad rather then UK?

2712 · 29/06/2013 23:17

Not being funny, but who actually wants to holiday in the UK. The weather is far too unpredictable. If you have to shell out exorbitant prices in school hols, at least go where you have some chance of sunshine, no?
And it's not that much cheaper to stay in the UK.

Sharptic · 29/06/2013 23:35

I only work part time, in the Uk you'd be looking at £500 self catering for caravan for a week in August.

We have done Sun holidays, even they're getting too popular.

I'm working on next year already!

SuburbanRhonda · 29/06/2013 23:36

You're right 2712. You're not being funny.

What I meant was, is there really no affordable holiday for a family with two working parents?

SuburbanRhonda · 29/06/2013 23:39

sharptic great idea to start saving for next year.

Could you save £20 per week between you for the next year? Then you'd have £1000 - enough for a summer holiday!

Summerblaze · 29/06/2013 23:42

I'll say it again.

We are told that holidays can't encroach on school time but when it is holidays/weekend/evening we get shedloads of homework to do Confused. Takes me well over an hour to do homework for 2 and projects over the hols really piss me off.

MoominsYonisAreScary · 29/06/2013 23:43

I'm going to haven this year, I couldn't stand the thought of airports and planes with the younger two this year

SuburbanRhonda · 29/06/2013 23:44

You do your DCs' homework, summerblaze?

Do what I do, get the DCs to do it. Totally liberating!

2712 · 29/06/2013 23:44

Yes, for 2 working parents on say £30,000 a year. They could probably afford to save for a hol (paying school hol prices). But my family income was £19,000 and after paying out on food, fuel, mortgage, etc, there wasn't much left over. Which is why the only hol my kids have had has been at Haven, and they only got that because luckily their school had 2 inset days which landed on a Friday and Monday, so we had a long weekend.....legally.

PrettyPaperweight · 29/06/2013 23:44

is there really no affordable holiday for a family with two working parents?

Erm - surely it depends how much the two working parents earn and how many mouths they have to feed, bodies they have to clothe and feet they have to shoe?
A household with one DC will have a lot more disposable income to spend on optional extras than a household with 4 or more DCs - and of course, holidays are more expensive the larger the family is!

There have always been plenty of families whose 'holiday' consists of parents having a week off work during school holidays and spending 'days out' with their DCs - booking a week away has always been out of reach of many working families.