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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think he deserve to be in PRISON, its abuse!

62 replies

LittlePeaPod · 22/06/2013 06:41

Braving the AIBU forum.. I genuinely want to know if IABU and hope this doesn't go against MN talk guidelines. Sensitive subject I know but I want to hear what you think.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23004956

Personally, I totally agree with the fact this teacher has been prosecuted and I think he should serve every single day of the five and a half year sentence. To make it clear if the situation was different and this was a female teacher I would expect her to be prosecuted too.

In my eyes all of the points below tantamount to child abuse, grooming and a criminal offence. Made worse by the fact he was in a position of influence and trust:

  • sexually kissing a 14 year old girl in the classroom, that you teach her in
  • starting to have sex with a 15 year old pupil in her uniform in your car, hotels and your own marital home
  • sending what sounds to be sexually explicit texts, picture messages, tweets and emails
  • calling her mother and lying about rumours which he knew were true. Making it look like her daughter was making it up and making the mother feel bad about her daughters behaviour
  • taking a child out of the country without her parents consent, on your wife's stolen passport
  • and god only knows what else!

I don't care how mature she may look or sound. I think the whole "this is a misunderstood love story" is a load of BS. I don't care if she agreed to go to France or willingly slept with him, his still in the wrong. Bottom line is he was the adult, in a position of trust and influence. It was his responsibility to put a stop to this, tell the school or her parents about her crush. But he didn't, instead he took advantage of a young vulnerable teenage pupil with a crush on her teacher.

In my opinion his a criminal and should be locked up for every day of the five and a half years. Adults sleeping with children can't not use the excuse "ohhhhh but it was/is love". Where do we draw the line 12, 13 years old? Why any parent would think his sentence is harsh s beyond me. Would they be happy to hand their 14/15 year old children over to 30 year old adults?

Ladies and gentlemen (I know there are one or two out there), am I been unreasonable?

OP posts:
anonacfr · 22/06/2013 10:15

There seems to be a bizarre type of sexy schoolgirls in this country- the St Trinian sexually precocious temptress type of girls, who go round preying on poor innocent teachers.
At least that's what the Daily Fail readers think. There are seriously comments claiming the girl was responsible for the whole thing Hmm

Stories are how emerging that he tried to groom other girls as well. I hope people will now realise what a pervert he is.

RhondaJean · 22/06/2013 10:52

There were some rather disturbing phone calls yesterday morning to call Kaye on radio Scotland as I was driving to work. The worst being some sad git who said he wishes a 15 year old would fling herself at him, becaus ethe girl went all out to get the teacher and it was her fault and she was old enough to know what she was doing and he should not go to jail.

I arrived at work and missed Thr full phone in but I was disgusted.

I don't think age gap relationships where one person is this young are right in general because of the power differential, but in is case it's a thousand times worse as he was a teacher.

What was he supposed to do wi this brazen little hussy who was doing all but flinging her knickers at him? (not my thoughts) Erm. Say no and speak to his supervisors for support.

Girls (and boys) have been getting crushes on teachers for years and years. It'd not like there isn't support out there for any decent human being.

What w he not supposed to do? Em. Shag her. It was THAT easy.

WilsonFrickett · 22/06/2013 11:04

I spent an hour raging about the DM comments to my friend last night. It fair killed the mood in what was up till then a giggly night with wine, but seriously wtf is up with people? I find it so, so depressing, diminishing and infuriating that a man's right to have sex with whomever he wishes - because that's what these comments boil down to IMO - trumps every other consideration. Angry

I really hope that girl is receiving some very good support to help her untangle all this. ATM she's backed in to a corner somewhat, and that never helps a teen.

WilsonFrickett · 22/06/2013 11:05

^ man's supposed^ right to have sex with whomever he wishes that shoud read, quite an important omission there...

LittlePeaPod · 22/06/2013 11:29

Mia. I agree that there is a disparity between sentences but there should be a outcry when the sentence is not long enough (Hall). In cases like this when the judge gets it right the public should be supporting it. A lot of the comments i have read aren't just about the disparity in sentencing procedures. These people, some undoubtably parents I say that in the loses sense actually believe this is two people deeply in love and the big bad establishment is coming between them. Justifying he has done nothing wrong because this child went after him, consent, went along with it whatever... Why won't these people accept he groomed her for his own disgusting perverted ends!

OP posts:
pianodoodle · 22/06/2013 11:45

I didn't think there'd be anyone who'd disagree with the sentence but I've seen "show support for this misunderstood couple" type groups popping up here and there.

That must be nice for his wife :(

Mia4 · 22/06/2013 13:37

LittlePeaPod I agree it should be more of an outcry, but those kind of comments are luckily the only ones I've seen and they've not been victim blaming. But i won't read the Fail because it is just that, a big old Fail, and I know you get a lot of knob heads and trolls on there.

The problem is some people just can't accept they are victim blaming, so many people do it all the time-the truth is if you say 'I'm not blaming but...' you are victim blaming, end of, and if you excuse something based on blaming the victim (like these people are) then again you are victim blaming.

The problem is so many people tout 'responsibility' as being an out to victim blaming, they likely see it as the girl's responsibility because she's a) young and sexual (though the latter not to unignorant people because still a child), b) flirty and tempting (again to normal folk no, not, there's a firm line between acceptable and not) and c) almost legal and in love (no, she was not legal especially when he groomed her and the 'love' is born of aid grooming and abuse of her consent).

DuelingFanjo · 24/06/2013 11:31

in response to WouldBeHarrietVane who said "Aoc should reflect capacity to choose to have sex. In my view many at 15 can validly choose."

the thing is that the AOC has to be set somewhere to protect children who are being taken advantage of. If we lower it to 15 then people will be asking for it to be lowered to 14 the 13 and so on.

16 is about right and of course there are different circumstances like a 15 year old and her 17 year old boyfriend... In this case it was a 30 year old teacher who had a duty of care to a 14 year old and should not have stepped over that moral and legal boundary.

I just can't understand why people can not see that he was so in the wrong here!

DuelingFanjo · 24/06/2013 11:40

And the latest stupidity on the Facebook support group is "If only there could be one of those campaigns to get Jeremy to number one. That'd be two fingers in the right direction"

LittlePeaPod · 24/06/2013 11:41

I have just copied this from another thread but its such a great post I wanted to share it here. I really hope the original poster of this message from that thread doesn't mind me sharing their thoughts on this thread

You know, when I was studying criminology I was shocked to discover that most paedophiles have absolutely no sense that what they are doing is wrong. This is what makes them so dangerous. They believe that abuse, especially sexual, is another way of showing their love to a child.

I read scores of interviews with jailed paedophiles in which they compared themselves to homosexuals, saying that one day they too, will be accepted by society and what they do will no longer be a crime.

At the time I was horrified and deeply disturbed by their attitude. Reading this thread is more horrifying because now I understand why they don't think that what they are doing is wrong. Because there are so many people willing to turn a blind eye, to blame the child (especially if that child is a girl) and to excuse their behaviour.

It seems that some sections of society already accept some forms of paedophila as normal. In fact there are cultures in which it is perfectly acceptable, where children have few rights and where girls are mere commodities.

Let's be very clear about this. Mr Forrest was grooming not just this child but other children from the ages of 13. These are children who are only a year into secondary school, who are still finding their feet.

He actively pursued a relationship with these young girls and in this particular one he struck gold, because she was also quite vulnerable and had a childish crush on him, which must have been quite evident. He sent her letters, took her out, gave her gifts, wrote her songs - in short he did everything to seduce her.

Yet, even after reading all of that, even after knowing all the facts of the case there are still posters who make excuses for him. In their heads, despite everything they hear to the contrary, he was the one led astray by this 'wild child' and it was she who put him up to everything.

And who assisted this teacher in his advances? Other men. Even her own father. She has been treated like a commodity, sold to the highest bidder. That she was exploited, targeted, abused makes no difference because his right to love and lust trumps her right to innocence and a childhood.

According to recent figures by the NSPCC 1 in every 3 girls will be exposed to some sort of sexual abuse. Online grooming is everywhere and I recently investigated Habbo Hotel as research for an article I wrote about security on children's sites. I posed as a 12 year old girl. I was asked for my facebook account, for my skype details and told by one that he wanted to make love to me. That was within 10 minutes of first signing up for an account.

My own dd is 12. She will be 13 in July. I fear for her more than ever because of peoples attitudes towards young girls. Apparently if her teacher started grooming her now and she ran away with him when she turned 15, that would be ok according to some on here.

It's a disgusting attitude but it makes me understand now why those paedophiles who were interviewed said what they did. Why they thought it was acceptable behaviour. I never thought that anyone would blame a child for the actions of a grown man until I came across this thread. I am still struggling to understand that thought process but it has made me realise that even in this educated society, a very outdated attitude exists still which is probably more threatening to our children than the paedos themselves. The attitude that young girls are the seducers and the men, mere innocent victims.

It's the attitude the Taliban have and it's why women are dressed from head to toe lest the sight of them causes a man to sin. It's why some children are cast out as witches. It's why young girls who are abducted from Nepal and are forced to work in the sex industry in Nepal are never allowed back into their families or communities if they are rescued; it's why girls are killed in 'honour killings'. It's an attitude as old as Adam and Eve. That girls and women are sent to tempt men.

It's an attitude that makes me want to keep my dd close to me and to never let her go.

OP posts:
TVTonight · 24/06/2013 12:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LittlePeaPod · 24/06/2013 12:17

It is a brilliant note. So much respect for the original poster for sharing it. It's scary how our culture has become so accepting of these behaviours to the point we have parents excusing the sort of grooming that occurred in the JF case..

OP posts:
LilacPeony · 24/06/2013 19:30

I was thinking earlier of the other thread and it reminded me of how someone I knew had once referred to a 4 year old girl as a "Lolita" because she liked playing with the boys in her class. Angry Lolita as you know in the story was a 12 year old child who was sexually abused by a middle aged man. Near the end of the story Humbert refers to himself as a "maniac" who "deprived" Dolores "of her childhood." It's very telling though that Lolita is used by people, not to describe a child victim of sex abuse, but to mean a young "temptress." ie. people are implying Lolita was responsible at 12 for her abuse by the middle aged male character. Hmm

passmetheprozac · 24/06/2013 20:18

I spat my coffee out reading this

DuelingFanjo · 24/06/2013 20:53

Passmee, someone posted that story on Facebook to try and show me why she thought Jeremy forrest had been treated harshly.

Remotecontrolduck · 24/06/2013 21:20

I've had to contend with two people today who thinks Forrest was treated harshly, he loves her and she loves him etc.

Of course he doesn't love her. If he loved her (which as her teacher I'm not sure how this would come about, but stranger things have happened I suppose) he wouldn't have taken her away from her family knowing the implications legally and for the most crucial part of her education.

He would have waited for her to be old enough to make a decision. He could have quit his job. He could have got her some help for her problems.

Even when caught, he demonstrated yet more sheer selfishness by not even pleading guilty, by making her stand up in court while all the humiliating details of her sex life were plastered all over the papers. If he loved her, he'd want to protect her. He'd have her best interests at heart.

He is despicable and a selfish, selfish man.

Why can't people grasp this? That article just misses the point totally.

crashdoll · 24/06/2013 21:27

In case I get slated, just to be clear - I think what this 'man' did was morally (and obviously legally) irreprehensible but I wish people wouldn't misuse the word paedophile. Not because I think JF deserves any respect but simply because it is the wrong terminology. He abused a minor but is not a paedophile because she was not pre-pubescent.

Remotecontrolduck · 24/06/2013 21:37

Nah he's not a paedophile and I think it's important to not use that term as it devalues it.

He is however a man with unhealthy interest in teenage girls. It really makes me cross how people can possibly think he loves her.

LittlePeaPod · 25/06/2013 06:37

He may not be technically be a peadophile but he is a Sexual Offender and he looks to have been grooming young girls for a while. Seems at least two have come out already.. One from the age of 13... The above note relating to peadophiles does apply to him too as he still doesn't hink his done anything wrong.

Read an article which says his in solitary because as a convicted sex offender his probably going to get attack... It's going to be a long stretch for him and I have no sympathy...

OP posts:
NicholasTeakozy · 25/06/2013 07:49

I think the sentence is about right and is much as I expected. There is nobody to blame except Jeremy Forrest himself. The girl herself may have been a willing accomplice but that is not the point. He should not have done anything. He was a teacher, and therefore in a position of trust which he proceeded to abuse massively.

Lazyjaney · 25/06/2013 08:08

"Personally, I totally agree with the fact this teacher has been prosecuted and I think he should serve every single day of the five and a half year sentence. To make it clear if the situation was different and this was a female teacher I would expect her to be prosecuted too"

The sentence is quite a lot higher than most others in similar positions have had, that seems to be more the issue most people are exercised by.

However as yet his lawyers haven't appealed, which is interesting in itself.

AnyFucker · 25/06/2013 08:31

The problem as I see it is not that Forrest's sentence is too high, but that others are too low.

meddie · 25/06/2013 08:46

The problem as I see it is not that Forrest's sentence is too high, but that others are too low.

^This

TSSDNCOP · 25/06/2013 09:12

His sister seems to be getting lots of lovely airtime whilst she tries to convince us that her convicted Sex Offender brother isn't erm a convicted Sex Offender.

To the Forrest family. You may well love your son, that's commendable, he will need your support in the coming years.

But the fact is, he IS a convicted Sex Offender.

Lazyjaney · 25/06/2013 09:14

"The problem as I see it is not that Forrest's sentence is too high, but that others are too low"

Sure, and that's where the debate really is - length of sentence, should it follow past outcomes etc etc - not should he be in prison or not.

Afaics a very few people think he shouldn't be in prison as the OP claims, just as a few people think it should be 20 years plus, but both are outliers.