to think a HCP should know more than me about baby care?

[DorothyMantooth]

Following a call to 111, I had to take 12 wk old DD to OOH GP (Harmoni) on Fri night. I had called to check whether sustained screaming over several hours was normal, and was advised that DD needed to be examined within 2 hrs.

Frankly, I was horrified by the standard of care offered by Harmoni. Several reasons for this:

A) the first thing the GP told us was that he had been about to go home, as he didn't realise there were any more patients despite our appt being made more than 1 hour before. The guy was clearly not interested in being there.

B) the first question he asked was whether this was our first child (she is). Made no secret of the fact that he thought we were hysterical parents from this moment on.

C) DD is a thumbsucker. When he saw this, he said "please buy her a dummy". Although I am not keen on dummies myself, we have actually tried her with one several times, but she really doesn't like it. When I told him this, he told me to tie it around her neck on a piece of string "and she'll get used to it". By this point I was fuming (none of his business whether I give my baby a dummy or not IMO) and pointed out that this was contrary to current advice as this could be a choking hazard. He said he meant a long necklace, like those used for security passes etc. When I asked what medical reason there was for preventing her sucking her thumb at this age, he said her thumb will become infected. I gave up at this point.

D) after a maximum 30 second examination (took her temperature, listened to her heart), he declared that there was nothing wrong with her. I was perfectly prepared to accept that this was the case but really thought he might have even pretended to go through the motions with her.

AIBU to think that a HCP, whether NHS or private contractor, should have at least a basic understanding of current guidelines for baby care (not in depth stuff, just things like don't put string round their necks), not impose their own (unrequested) views in areas that don't concern them and most of all do a proper examination when they have a tiny screaming infant in front of them?

That's just weird report him.

Of course you're not BU.
Did you get the Drs name? If not ring back, get it and make a written complaint.

YANBU - I'd put in a complaint. I have no problems whatsoever with dummies and both of mine were offered them, but both completely refused to have anything to do with it (DD1 is an out and out thumb-sucker)

Hope your DD is better - did you find out what was causing the screaming?

YANBU. I had dd at OOH to check a rash to see if she was having a bad vaccine reaction. All he cared about was her cradle cap. It was the first thing he commented on and he kept mentioning it even when we were talking about the rash. We left with a fobbing off about the rash and a prescription for something for the cradle cap which we binned because we'd already explained we were treating it. Its frightening because what if there had been something really wrong and all he cared about was that.

Well, I am a HCP and I knew next to nothing about 'baby care' before I had children.

Having said that YANBU to be aggrieved with how were and your DD were treated. Yes, put your concerns in writing - whether you formally complain or just make a matter of fact statement. If people who get shabby treatment (even if it's 'just' in the communication/non-verbal communication) don't complain, nothing will ever change.

Bites her tongue about how commercial companies are so NOT the answer to what plagues the NHS

Hope your DD is ok.

YANBU, this is awful! It's 'lucky' that someone like you was given this advice because you know it's dangerous, you also had the confidence to realise that this dr wasn't right in the way he dealt with your DD. If this had been someone clueless it could have caused a tragedy, please report this dr; this advice in the wrong hands is not going to lead to anything good.

Next time I'd leave then go to A&E or seek a second opinion. I wouldn't take any further advice from anyone who suggested I forced a dummy on my child, let alone someone who suggested putting string round his neck! Insane. I hope your DD is feeling much better.

YANBU. I took DS to A&E when he was a couple of months old because of non-stop vomiting and diahorreah (he was admitted for several days). The first doctor we saw asked me if he was breastfed. I said no (he had been for the first ten days but I had a sort of breakdown and basically DH and my mum had to take over. I just couldn't be near DS. This was horrible and I felt incredible guilt about it.... I did not want to go into any of this with the doctor, so I just said 'No, FF' and didn't qualify it).

The doctor immediately stopped examining him and said, 'You should breastfeed.' He actually pointed at my chest and said, 'That's what those are for. So that your baby doesn't get ill.' Then he walked off. I was in floods of tears, DS was still screaming and shitting, DH went ape shit and we didn't see that doctor again; a nice pediatrician looked after us.

Horrible fucking man.

YANBU, but I used to know a HV who was truly clueless about her own labour/birth/baby care.

YANBU Report the prat.

How is DD now?

That's terrible. It's all very well them not knowing about baby care but then surely they would send her to someone who knew about how to look after a young infant?

Also it's not right for him to try and reinforce his opinions on what to do about her thumb sucking. I haven't heard many stories about infections due to thumb sucking. The worst I have heard is getting red fingers/quiggly fingers due to the sucking but this is natural.

Did you find out what was causing it?

Teething, cold etc?

I hope she's feel better now, anyways. :)

feeling better.

I'm actually finding some of these stories really upsetting. The standard of care and sympathy is truly shocking. I know the vast majority do a terrific job but what makes it so frightening is it's your precious DC. When they are ill you are just desperate to get them better and you really need someone to be sympathetic and explain everything properly not be dealt this blase inexcusable crap. It makes you feel there is nowhere else to turn. Poor little babies.

Thanks all. The more I read your responses the more irate I am and I will definitely be reporting him. Luckily by the time we got to see him, DD had calmed down a lot so I was less worried, but I keep thinking about that poor woman whose DS died after terrible OOH care.

claire, I think she was reacting to her jabs, which she'd had the day before. She was quite poorly after the first round so it doesn't surprise me. She's much better now, thanks all for asking.

pacific, you're right, I wouldn't really expect all HCPs to know about babies - but I would expect a GP to know the current guidelines on key issues (I've read about not tying things round your baby's neck in many baby books, so it's not exactly obscure), and not to give unrequested advice like this - I hope no-one ever listens to him. And you are right about privatisation of the NHS!

ignatius, that is a truly terrible story - I am so sorry that that happened to you.

Aaargh about the dummy advice - that is soooo stupid. Apart from anything else at 12 weeks a lot of babies just suck anything and don't go on to suck their thumbs long-term. My own DD had a dummy to 6m which she then completely rejected and at 3.5 is currently insisting on sucking a piece of Duplo in bed every night which she refers to as a 'tummy'. Go figure.

As for GPs giving dodgy childcare advice - yeah that will happen because they are generalists and they don't necessarily get much training keeping them up-to-date in childcare stuff. Those who have young children of their own can be awesome. But my own Dad is a GP and whilst I love him to bits he gave me some monumentally daft advice when DD was small. For day-to-day stuff like how to handle sleep, eating, comforting friends with young children, your health visitor and Mumsnet may all be more reliable.

What a GP can always do is doublecheck there isn't a sinister reason for unexplained crying like an abdominal obstruction, ear infection, or a dangerous virus. And they should do this in a way which is reassuring and explains to the parent what are the worrying signs that should encourage them to seek help in the future if they need to. Despite his other bonkers advice I do know my Dad takes that very seriously because he remembers how scary it is when your tiny child is distressed and you don't know how to comfort them, and he wouldn't want anyone with a poorly baby to avoid seeking help because they thought they might be wasting his time.

So I would be more annoyed about A B and D because those were core parts of his job which he did poorly. It didn't matter that your DD was actually OK. You were concerned, you sought advice and were advised to take her in, you should have been listened to carefully, attention should have been paid to her and you should have been properly reassured.

HaveIGotPoosForYou - I have read that this can happen, but it's not common. I'm not worried about it. I would rather run the minor risk of a sore thumb than the risk of DD choking on a string around her neck.

humdumaggapang - very true. There are great HCPs all through the NHS - my regular GP is great and I had fantastic care when I had DD. But I think some are jaded by the job and the hours, to the extent that they find it difficult to empathise with patients.

Thanks Dorothy, I'm sorry, it was probably totally irrelevant but it was a bit of a trigger!

I should have said, I hope your DD feels much better soon.

YANBU, its the "is this your first?" that irks me. I once asked why they wanted to know and he mumbled something about "well if it was your 5th you'd be.more experienced...". Yes but I expect that a mother of 5 would still bring a vomiting 11 baby with a temperature of 39 degrees in to see you.

A) Maybe he hadn't been told about you coming in

B) You are presuming he thought you were hysterical parents, he was just trying to get a history and was probably shattered after a long shift

C) Yes, utterly idiotic comment about tying the dummy around neck. Can't excuse him for that.

D) He examined her and announced there was nothinf wrong with her. You have admitted yourself that this was from baby jabs. You seriously wanted him to "go through the motions"? At what point would "motions" end?

I know it was probably a stressful experience but please have a good sleep and think about things before complaining. By all means complain about dummy comment.

Yanbu what stupid things to say.

I think infection with thumb sucking is a real risk, my 5 month old ds is a toe sucker strange child and he got a nasty infection in his toe last week. It is much better now after antibiotics. The daughter of friends of mine had a badly infected thumb because of thumb sucking, she now has one thumb much thinner than theother.

The Dr said to me to tell ds he was not to suck his toe he could suck his dummy instead, I pointed out that ds was a little too young to reason with. The solution we found was to dress him in babygrows all the time then he can't get to his toe.

Reporting him for what?

(a) he was not told - not his fault.

(b) your impression.

(c) so you don't agree, fine. What is the problem?

(d) what is wrong with taking the temperature and listening to the heart?

Not unreasonable to feel how one feels - obviously feelings are feeling, one is entitled to have them, whatever they are. But the gut did nothing wrong.

The guy did nothing wrong not the gut

penelope - I do realise that GPs can't really keep up with all current healthcare advice, but in that case they probably shouldn't proffer unrequested advice on non-essential issues. In reality it will not affect DD's health to suck her thumb, but choking on a string around her neck probably would. Luckily I knew not to follow this GP's advice, but others may not know that they should not do this. You're right that friends and family are much better sources of advice (thank god that I'm not the first of my friends to have kids!). On non-urgent medical things, I'd even speak to the HV before GP. As you say, he just wasn't doing his job properly - interestingly, DD hadn't pooped for 3 days (unusual for her) which the 111 people seemed to think relevant as they were giving me advice on how to help her move her bowels (one of them actually told me to give her mashed up fruit when she is only 12 weeks old, but that's a whole other thread), but he didn't even feel her abdomen or ask any further questions about it.

I was so knackered and annoyed at the time that I didn't take the guy's name, but will definitely be calling them in the morning to find out so I can complain.

I will firstly complain that he didn't do his job properly - he gave DD a very cursory examination, didn't even ask me to remove her clothes to check for rashes or feel her abdomen when he had been told about her pooping problem. Yes, I was less worried by the time we saw him, but I am not medically trained so expected the GP to try to find the cause of her discomfort rather than just saying "she doesn't have a fever, she's fine". I'm attributing the incident to her jabs but again I'm not a doctor so am not sure of this and secondly if it was the jabs, I couldn't tell whether the reaction was serious or not. I know that small babies can go downhill quickly so would have expected him to at least do a few more checks.

Secondly, I think it was really inappropriate of him to impose his views on thumbsucking on me, but more seriously that he was giving me really poor unsolicited advice that could be a serious hazard to a child. If nothing else he needs to be told not to advise parents to ties things around their babies' necks.

I was told it is normal for babies not to poo for days on end, maybe he didn't see the poo as an issue?

hadassah - the problem is that it is widely acknowledged that tying a dummy around a baby's neck (as advised by this GP) is a hazard:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2791560/
"Never tie a pacifier around a baby?s neck. This can cause strangulation and death."

gro.co.uk/sleep-central/safe-sleep/baby-zone-information
"Don?t let your baby get into contact with any type of ribbons or string which could strangle him. Don?t tie a dummy around your baby?s neck."

www.babycentre.co.uk/a567379/teething-how-to-ease-the-distress
"Never tie anything around your baby's neck for ease of use, as it puts her in danger of strangling herself. This includes teething rings, dummies or attachable teething biscuits"

Just for starters. I would expect a GP not to advise this.