To wish that child free flights existed

[1Veryhungrycaterpillar]

I'm just sick of people complaining about children making noise on flights so I'd love it if those people could have a flight of their very own and leave us to it! I'm not talking about allowing kids to run amok but so fed up with people tutting and sighing when a baby starts crying, this always seems to result in the mother getting more stressed and more tears all round

junkfood - I think you are me in my past. 3 years ago we flew to New Zealand with our 11.5 month old -she was 12.5 months on the way home.
The first flight (London-Singapore) was fine - we took off at 11.30pm and she was knackered and fell asleep. The next leg was slightly less fun - she had just learnt to walk and that was all she wanted to do so I was up and down the aisles -I think I walked from Singapore to NZ. Same story on the way home. Word of advice - if you get one of those cot things to hang on the wall, don't trust the straps. On the way home, DD had finally given in and gone to sleep and I popped her in the cot, strapped her in and sank thankfully into unconsciousness. I came too a short while later because someone was prodding me in the neck. The lady in the seat behind in fact, who had realised that DD had woken up and managed to wriggle out from under the strap and was now dangling by her thighs head first over the edge. I didn't fully relax after that!

But she didn't cry, not once, in the entire flight, either way! Good luck!

Surely putting a filter on what you are feeling and what you say is one of the defining attributes of being a grown up?

Sure, but everyone has limits with respect to what they can tolerate. I reached my limit 11 hours into a 12 hour flight to SA, the baby behind me had screamed almost non-stop from boarding. When the stewardess asked me if everything was okay, my answer was more than a little too honest.

DH reached his limit when a lack of parenting resulted in the flight being diverted to the nearest airport, he was not impressed with the mother of the child who had caused a medical emergency complaining about the landing. The lecture he delivered would have been hilarious if I hadn't been so ill at the time (food throwing resulted in contamination and I had a bad reaction).

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll end up saying it again at some point - I have NEVER had a problematic child passenger on a flight. Plenty of extremely troublesome adults (some of whom I have had to call the police to meet on landing for various reasons.) But compared to the average travelling grown-up, most kids are a delight to have on board. I say this with some considerable professional experience, btw.

Children are rarely fat enough to take up half your seat too.

They rarely have interminable body odour or halitosis.

They don't drink.

They don't feel compelled to tell you the reason for their visit to wherever you're going/returning from.
They don't jump out of their seat as soon as the plane touches down and push past you to get their bags down from the locker even though the seatbelt sign is still on.
They don't do man wee all over the walls and floor of the loo.

The only time my DD has been on a plane, I sent DH with her while I drove and met them there.

It was bliss - 6 hours alone in a car with Radio 4 and some Cadbury's eclairs.

Let's face it, it's not the children that are the problem, but the adults with them. The only time I had a problem was a seven hour flight (actually the second leg of my trip after a 16 hour flight already) and I was next to a mother and her child who must have been just under the cutoff for being on a lap. It was the bulkhead seats and she had the middle seat. She wanted to get up. Then down. Then up. I offered to swap seats with her. No, she wanted the middle. Every time she moved the flight attendants had to come and take the cot out, then put it back, then take it out again. Over and over. The child was too big for the cot, but she wanted it there to put her bags in. Then the child thought it was hilarious to start pulling my hair. Mum laughed and said "oh this is his new game". It kept happening so I went for a walk to the bathrooms, and when I came back I found her changing a pooey nappy on my seat, with no mat or anything underneath it . I ended up standing in the bulkhead for the duration of the flight. Luckily the purser of first class took pity on me when he found out what was going on and fetched me a very nice bottle of first class wine, a real wine glass and a box of godiva chocolates to keep me amused for the rest of the flight.

I once flew back from the Channel Islands (a very short flight) on my own with DD1 who was about 2.5 and DD2 who was a small baby. DD2 cried for pretty much the whole (30 mins max) flight and the couple in front spent the entire time, turning round and glaring at me, so I was already stressed out and on edge anyway, in the end the man shouted "can't you give that baby a dummy and shut it up", and then complained to the air stewardess that he had probably been deafened as a result of my baby crying.

I was so upset I sat on the plane crying until everyone had got off as I was terrified of another encounter with him (my husband thought we had missed the plane it was so long before we got out). It was weeks before I could mention it without dissolving into tears and even now 7 years later I think about it every time I get on a plane. I don't know why it upset me quite so much but I really wish I had not been such a quivering wreck and able to say something back to him. Needless to say I was a nervous wreck flying with my children for years after that!

When DD was eight months old and we were flying from the U.S to Australia to visit my parents, there was a simply lovely French woman who offered to look after DD if I needed to go to the loo or have a sleep. Another time, when was two, I had a horrendous flight schedule with three stopovers - one in London, one in Dubai and an 'overnight' stay in Kuala Lumpur before flying to Madras and then catching a connecting flight to Bangalore. I still get nightmares about that trip!!

From New York to London, I wanted to sleep but DD wanted to walk the aisles.. From London to Dubai there was a large group of horrid, fat Arab ladies laden with jewellery who kept pressing the attendant button, kicking me in the back ( to this day I think deliberately), talked loudly with plenty Yaallahs' thrown in,, threw their rubbish on the floor and ended up having a tiff with a hostess. DD was tired by then but neither of us could sleep. In Dubai airport, DD had a total meltdown when she was told by flustered staff that she couldn't keep running back to go through the metal detectors again (after doing it for about three minutes). Everyone really was staring at us. From Dubai to Kuala Lumpur, DD slept like a rock but I couldn't (having had a couple of stiff double espressos in Dubai to survive). So we landed in KL at 11:30 pm local time with her having had 8 hours of solid sleep and me not having slept for about 19.

Narrowly missed shuttle bus to hotel so had to wait just over an hour for the next one. Daughter entertained Malaysian Tamil staff by running up and down shouting her name ( very South Indian one). Bus came and took us to absolutely gorgeous hotel where we were given a wonderful ensuite 'room' ( more like an entire floor- it was by the far the best hotel room I've ever stayed in). DD loved it so much she didn't want to sleep but wanted to play hide-and-seek. Was 2:30am before finally managed to get her off to sleep ( with some threats). 5:30am - 'Allahu Akbar! at full force' me -''wth" as I stumble to the floor to ceiling window and draw the curtains. Stunning view of the beautiful blue domed mosque right next to our hotel. Some chanting then a second 'Allahu Akbar!' at which point DD wakes up wailing and continues until morning prayers have finished. Try to get her to go back to sleep but she's not having a bar of it... we stumble down to a delicious breakfast at 7:30am .. flight leaves at 11 so no time for nap because we have to get to airport.

Couldn't sleep on 3 hour flight to Madras because DD decided that all elderly women were her 'Patti' and made it her mission to endear herself to each and every one of them. Only an hour in Madras but had to sit outside in sweat inducing humidity (in the middle of their winter so hate to think what summer is like) with about a hundred armed guards keeping an eye on us. DD said she needed to go to the loo but they wouldn't let us into the airport. Had a little meltdown myself and they let me in with a 'crazy foreigner' look only after I agreed to leave bags with them. Other passengers, Indians who had also been asking to go to the loo weren't let in and sat staring at us/guards and muttering darkly about the unfairness of it all when we came back. One hour flight to Bangalore .. got about 20mins sleep. 90 minute wait in the floor in a dusty hallBangalore whilst they processed the immigration papers of a previous plane ( they had not yet opened the new international airport there).

Finally came out and practically ran sobbing with relief into the arms of MIL/FiL looking like haggaed wreck (no sleep for 27 hours!).

DS sleeps through all flights...long and short haul... thank god!

I really am in awe and admiration of all the selfless women in here who, after 12 hours listening to a baby crying, only and exclusively worry about "the poor parents"... It even sounds a bit suspicious.

I have a very sensitive hearing, and a baby crying has the same effect to my ears as someone's nails on a blackboard has to most other people. Regardless of who is at fault, a child crying, especially when it's high-pitched, is a form of unendurable torture for me. Give me a smelly passenger any time, at least the nose gets used to the smell after a while.

I have been travelling both domestically and internationally several times a year, and I would rate annoying/smelly/drunk adults as something that has happened "very occasionally", while screaming children and toddlers and seat-kickers has happened "quite regularly". I would definitely pay more for a child-free plane, please bring them on! I don't understand why anyone would oppose child-free flights... after what I am reading here, it seems they would make everybody happy: the ones who want to use them, and the ones who say they love children in a plane (they would get more children and more children-loving passengers as well). Definitely a win-win situation!

I would so go on a child free flight.

DS1 was a dream to fly with. DS2 is getting better...

We do the best we can. I am not going to stop flying because I have a toddler, no more or less selfish than anyone else on the plane.

People have been very kind to us the few times DS2 has kicked off. That made things a lot less tense.

But yes, given the choice I would fly without children and would pay more for a seat where there would be no little kids about. I don't feel insulted that others would do the same to avoid my toddler.

Where do I book?
There is sandalls, childfree holidays. There are child free restaurants. Why not flights?
Not everyone in the world has or likes kids. I don't like bunjee jumping, but it doesn't bother me if someone wants to do that activity.

There are always a few babies on flights over about 20 people or so IME, but certainly not enough for a whole plane of babies!

I'm not hugely bothered by babies so long as there is in flight entertainment. I just choose a noisy action movie. The last couple of times I've been on a long haul flight I have sat next to a baby. Last time it was two two month old twins (they were very sweet) and I had a nice chat with the dad. The babies both cried a bit but not much considering. Time before that a mum with a baby and a toddler. Again some yelling occurred, but no big deal.

I always have a bit of admiration for travellers with babies, as we didn't take out two anywhere until they were 5 and 6 I think.

The worst experience I've had so far was flying next to a couple who decided that the would sleep all over each other and squashed me into a corner with no escape. It was a red eye flight with screens own the middle of the plane. So not great!

aurynne
"annoying/smelly/drunk adults as something that has happened "very occasionally", while screaming children and toddlers and seat-kickers has happened "quite regularly"."

I would hazard a guess that this is entirely down to the flights you choose to get on. I fly commercial airliners for a living, and the majority of flights I do have very few children and just the occasional baby on. I fly mostly business flights round Europe and North America, and I do a lot of flying in Africa too. But if you fly at certain times of year, on certain routes, (eg go to the Bahamas or south of France in the school holidays, anywhere at all at Christmas or Easter,) and the flight will be crawling with children.

I can guarantee that if there is a problem with a passenger on a flight, it will be an adult. 14 years of flying 100s of thousands of passengers, and I've never once had a problem with a child passenger. I miss being able to show them the cockpit in flight, actually.

I recall DS1, 11 months, howling pretty much non-stop from Tokyo to London. We (DH and I) had spent a very committed 8 hours keeping him 'entertained' from Sydney to Tokyo, then made the error of a night's stop over, leaving Tokyo at noon, him 'refreshed' after a night's sleep. SO DH and I spent the 11 hours tag team walking him up and down the aisle. Luckily, the plane was full of Japanese who looked pityingly at me rather than tutting and huffing but still. It was a nightmare. Especially when the 9 month old baby of the adjoining couple pretty much slept the whole way, only waking to eat, gurgle and coo....

SO I was absolutely dreading flying DS1 (then 4) and DS2 (2) from Sydney to London 3 years later. We planned the flights as well as possible; 4 hours to Brunei, a 4 hour run around at the airport, a 7 hours stretch to Dubai (where they sort of slept, me sitting on the floor in front of the 3 seater so the DSs could stretch out!), an hour in Dubai airport (at 1am local time, Dubai lit up like a Xmas tree!), then 7 hours to London where again, they slept for 4 hours, then the hard work of the Last Stretch, me bringing amusement after amusement out of a backpack, but thinking, as we overflew Romania, only 3 hours out, "Nearly there! Nearly there!"

But, of course, flying them to Sydney 2 years ago, aged 10 and 12, on a brand new Airbus 380, back-of-the-seat entertainment, was a breeze.

This too shall pass.

We've flown with the DTs when they were 3, 4 and 5 and soon when they'll be 6. Only for a couple of hours to Spain but the secret seems to be keeping them occupied. We book two pairs of seats on two adjacent rows - a window for each of the girls and then the seat next to them for either of us. We also have a small bag full of little toys to play with, colouring, etc, and some snacks and a drink. The only problem is that they will need the loo during the flight so we have to get the person on our row out. But this shouldn't be an issue, unless the person is really obese (which has happened) and struggles to get out of those tiny chairs.

I resent paying the same price for each of the DTs when they weigh less than my luggage allowance. However, I am looking forward to taking them on flights with seat-back entertainment (it's all been budget flights so far, hence the tiny chairs).

Crying children can usually be blocked out with loud music through earphones (as long as the earphones are good enough to not mean everyone else hears you playing metallica)

Children running around on the other hand, cannot.

a few years back, we were in the extra leg room seats in the middle of the plane (3-4-3 set up) to the Maldives, so 11.5 hour flight. The children around us seemed to think it was a cut-through for their races. It was overnight, and as we had paid for extra legroom, we saw this as an opportunity to stretch our legs out in front of us whilst we slept. The children were running through and kept tripping over our feet. The parents had the audacity to complain about us for having our legs in the way of where their children wanted to run, and the mum threw a strop when I complained about their child a few hours later when they had once again run through in front of me (bearing in mind there is very little extra space, just enough to make a difference) and knocked my tray table and therefore my drink all over me for the 3rd time in the flight.

I don't find too many people who piss me off nowadays, I don't fly on a family holiday route or a stag party route only ever go from here to home and back again as we never get annual leave at the same time so the worst I ever seem to get is smelly people.

I think the only thing for it is to win the Euromillions and buy a private jet. Then the only annoying fucker will be my husband, and I'm allowed to swear at him if he pisses me off

That's so unfair Bertrude, it's those kind of parents that give the rest a bad name. My dad took us to Singapore singlehandedly when we were 6, 7 & 9 and when we never have dreamt of running about and even if we did he would have stopped us smartish. I would've asked for a legroom refund! Hopefully if you get a private jet you can have an aisle each!

I've never had a problem with a child of any age on a flight (though occasionally had to listen to parents talking so much to keep them 'entertained' you could see the children rolling eyes at each other and wishing dad would leave them alone ). In the.modern world people often need to travel to see family overseas and I'd much rather be sat near someone with dc than some of the obnoxious adults I've been squeezed next to on occasion. I did once see a near-accident when the attendent with the drinks trolley (walking backwards) was blissfully unaware of the littl'un that had resourcefully crawled into the aisle to make itself more space...

I have a problem with people who have a problem with seat recliners though (sorry...) Obviously I'd be sensitive if there was a small child on someone's lap behind me, and i've never been on a flight where the attendents didn't insist people sit up during mealtimes. We changed in Dubai on our way back from visiting family in Australia last year. We'd already been travelling for 20 hours and to say that I was green about the gills doesn't do it justice (have never had a problem flying before so wasn't something I could have prepared for ). Dh and I reclined to catch an hour or so's sleep before the meal came round and were told in no uncertain terms by the people behind us that it was a midday flight and we had no right to want to go to sleep, if we wanted comfort we should travel business class and who needs to sleep in the middle of the day anyway. If he hadn't been so rude we would have been much more accommodating. We were only reclining as much as the seats were designed to... He responded by kicking the seat the rest of the way home and making constant comments about us - could only laugh at him though when he kicked off with the attendent about how inconsiderate we were and look at how little space he had when I was sitting bolt upright Needless to say he didn't get a sympathy vote from her at that point.

Wow. Didn't realise I was still so worked up about that guy. Sorry for the rant... I'm normally a very calm and considerate traveller, I promise

Hearing stories of how people react to children on flights does not help with high anxiety!

I'm the type of person that gets so worried and so upset if my DD (12.5 months) makes any kind of cry or scream in public. She is generally a very happy girl but if she cries I have an almost full blown panic attack. I worry everyone is judging me and I feel like the worlds worst parent.

I'm never getting on a flight with her. Ever. I think I would probably have a heart attack!

Ok I'm only half serious but it would be a very high stress time for me

Therein lies the rub sunflowered, if he'd made a polite enquiry you could've explained but when someone is so rude it puts your back up doesn't it, it can feel so claustrophobic in those seats especially if you feel panicky/ill. When a person in front of my DH refused to put her chair up she was stage whispering to her travel companion 'they better not fucking say anything, I can lie down if I fucking like' before we'd even said anything!

I can understand that Squishy, I was hyperventilating on my flight but found breathing in to a sickbag really helped

We regularly do the London-Sydney run, it is pretty dreadful TBH but kids happen.

As long as parents are doing their best to keep them contained/quiet then I don't mind too much and I do my best as well.

I did insist on being seated away from a family once. We had flown Sydney to New York with them and DS2 was a nightmare - they were so kind (which is bloody hard work after 27 hours of screeching), 3 weeks later, we turn up at the check in desk for the return flight and who do we run into?!

I let them check in first and then explained to the woman at the counter what had happened and how it would be cruel to ruin their return flight as well!

Then the little bugger slept pretty much the whole way...

I flew heathrow - jfk and back in feb with my 2 charges who are 3 & 4 (dad was with us). The looks we got when we entered the plane into premier economy could have killed us! Luckily they are very well behaved children. They watched films, played on their leap pads all the way out, and slept all the way back as it was a night flight.

I personally have been on numerous flights where there's been unruly children who's parents appear to not be able to control. These are the worst children. I don't mind crying babies as unfortunately they are only young, and are going to cry! The last flight i took, there was a 5 month old maybe sat across from me.. i was half dreading it as all I wanted to do was to sleep. But it was the quietest baby I have known, happy, smiley and not a sound for the whole journey!

Backinthebox, I still remember being taken up to the cockpit at about 3am on a flight to Hong Kong when I was about eight. I still have the little model cathay pacific plane that the pilot gave me. I'm so disappointed that DS will never get to go.

I wont take my dd on a plane until she is older because I am terrified of being the mum desperately trying to shush the screaming almost two year old!