to think you need a total household income of >£120k to be able to afford a nanny?

[SESthebrave]

I'm back at work after DC2 and currently both DC are in nursery. This costs £1500 per month.

In September, DS starts school and we will need to arrange care before and after school 4 days per week. We also have DD (just turned 12mo) who will need care 4 days a week.

There is an after school club associated with the school but it closes at 6pm and I can't guarantee being back by then. There is no breakfast club.

A nanny seems a good solution and I have met one I like and I think would be great for us as a family. She charges £10ph net. I can understand why she charges this but by the time we've paid tax and NI and insurance and anything else, I don't see how we can afford it.
Our combined gross income is approx £110k each year. We do have a fairly hefty mortgage costing £1700 per month.

Am I just doing my sums wrong or do you need to be earning more?

I think it does depend on where you live. London nannies seem to cost a fortune. And I agree that you could probably find a nanny for less than £10 an hour net. It is only for a relatively short length of time in your working life so just be prepared not to have a lot of spare money as it will all be going on childcare.

And also the size of your mortgage seems large. I don't know what your net income is. But £1,700 mortgage and £1,500 or more childcare. That's over £3,000 before you've even started to eat and pay other bills.

yes, we earn £90k at a low tax rate and can just afford CM for DS2 plus wrap around care for DS1. Taking into account our outgoings there is no way we could afford a nanny. That us both working FT and max hours for a happy family

If your nanny is Ofsted registered or willing to become so, you can use childcare vouchers for part of her pay (or at least you could, a few years ago). I don't know if it's normal to fund the registration process (it includes the nanny doing a first aid course for example) but we were part of a nannyshare arrangement and we did this.

You need to be able to cover her net salary of ?£100 a day/2300 a month/27,600 a year (GAH i wish nannies would stop quoting net figures, it's so hard to work out) and tax/NI which is billed every 3 months - I remember it feeling as if we were paying another month's salary on top, so that would be around 9,200 a year. So about £37,000 a year. Plus paying for her fuel, the things the children do, entrance fees etc - I remember feeling that £10 a day didn't seem to go very far once fuel was included. We were part of a very inexpensive nannyshare for 3 years, but once we were employing one ourselves, we tried to do it for a year, but could only afford nine months - I felt rubbish making her redundant after such a short period, we really hadn't done our sums very well.

TBH if I were you I would decide what you can afford to pay, on an ANNUAL GROSS basis, and offer that. And look into childcare vouchers.

Can I just defend the OP?
A lot of people have nannies, not because they are particularly rich or idle, but simply because it's the only type of child care that will let them work the hours they need to.

I do a fairly ordinary job in London but earn a reasonable salary. I am a lone parent and can't use a child minder or after school club because i cannot guarantee to be back from work on time. I juggle things to afford a part time nanny. It's not a luxury. I would love to be able to do things differently but then I would have to rely on benefits.

FWIW we earn £120k+ and struggled to afford an FT nanny on around that salary. We had been in a share which ended - so being sole employer was not our initial arrangement. Our mortgage is a bit higher than yours though.

I would really not sweat it for a nanny - CM is the right route.

That sounds about right. However, I don't think what the nanny is asking for sounds outrageous. It's still a very moderate income for her. A childminder sounds like your best option but you may still have the hours limitation ( eg needing to get back to them by six). An au pair is not supposed to have sole charge of a young one but could you look into combing both a childminder and an au pair to cover the hours you can't be there?

and yes, out mortgage is higher than yours, around £2,300 pcm. Our CM is great and very flexible. Just as good as a nanny IMO

We live NE Surrey between Gatwick and Croydon.

I'm starting to think we'll just have to look at a number of childminders and go with one we feel best suits.

I don't work in a fixed location and could be anywhere between Chichester & Brighton and up to Gatwick, Reigate and across to Guildford, Farnham & Camberley.

A lot of people have nannies, not because they are particularly rich or idle, but simply because it's the only type of child care that will let them work the hours they need to.

Notcontent - I fully agree.

The hours that childcare is needed can be a reason why a nanny is the only option, other forms of childcare do not open as early, finish as late. Another reason is the number of children, OP currently has 2, but if they had 3 or more than a nanny becomes more of the option to consider as nannies are not paid on a per-child basis, unlike other forms of care.

Childminder is a route to look at, if you can find a childminder who will do the hours of care you need. Many will finish later into the evening these days, though do remember they have a family of their own so they may well not want to work late.

our CM works for us because DH collects the children at a set time every day. Usually about 4pm as he teaches. She is available though until much later if we need her. I drop off at a set time every day - about 9.15am although again she is working from about 7.30

Our nanny is about £1500 a month all in and it's crippling! Nursery would be about 1200 for both I think. I need flexibility though so went for that route. We chose an inexperienced nanny (who's worked in childcare before), so worked out cheaper for us.

The nursery we currently use is 7.30am-6.30pm. We don't use those full hours routinely but do need to sometimes - maybe once a fortnight. Normally we drop off about 8am and pick up about 5.45pm. It seems like a flexible CM will be our best option.

Many thanks.

It's hard to comment on your sums when we don't have all the information (although I'm not asking for it!!!).
£1,700 is a fairly hefty mortgage, but that's a choice presumably you made knowing you were going to have children. As other people have hinted - childcare costs are freely available before you have them, and it's a huge part of the deal if you intend to carry on working.
I didn't hire a nanny (although it would have been cheaper than several lots of day care fees), just because, for me, the potential personality clashes/sickness/holidays/days off etc... etc.... were too much of a disadvantage. But every situation is different.
An au pair sounds like a good idea (if you have the spare room and are happy to welcome someone else into your 'family') as does a childminder on an hourly rate.
Why do you need to move your other child if they are already in nursery? I'm assuming you don't have any family close by that could pick up in an emergency?
There is only going to be a small percentage of people that will/can 'sympathise' with you here, I'm sure you already appreciate that.
However, in answer to your question - no, I don't think you need > £120,000 to hire a nanny, but it is going to depend on what you are spending the other £45k on .....

SESthebrave - post on the mumsnet childcare board about what sort of typical salary you would need to pay a nanny in your area. Define if you are inside or outside of the M25.

Kent can be costly, not sure about Sussex. Surrey seems to vary, though I have known costs to be £7 gross per hour upwards... with £10 gross not being uncommon outside of the M25, higher inside the M25.

Wave as you come towards Camberley... I'm in that area (M3 side of Surrey, just below the M25)

A lot of people have nannies, not because they are particularly rich or idle, but simply because it's the only type of child care that will let them work the hours they need to.

This.

I don't think what the nanny is asking for sounds outrageous. It's still a very moderate income for her.

And this. I get really angry when people say 'childcare's so expensive' - £25-£30k is not a huge wage for someone in London who needs to regular update their training, be CRB checked (I know it's called something else now) and have significant responsibility / duty of care.

The issue is that most wages are too low to cover childcare and the government does not support parents and childcare providers enough in subsidy etc.

Nannies don't 'charge' so to speak, you set the wage and see who applies, however you will have those who want more/less depending, a nanny relatively new to the job might suit? They would be cheaper then and as DD will be a year it would make a good position to start in. I'm surprised that nanny gets 10net tbh, I'd have thought that or slightly more gross would be more likely your way.

Definitely look into the vouchers, in one of my jobs (two days a week one) most of my wage is paid by vouchers so it can cover a good day and a half of wages which will help.

I think a bit of flexibility can help too. Can your DH do morning drop offs and work late whilst you go to work early and get back a bit earlier for the evening pick-up or vice versa? If DH and I could have done that I probably wouldn't have had 8 years off!! But ours are 15 and 18 now.

In an ideal world I don't want to move DD from nursery as she has settled there and I am very happy with the care they provide. 2 separate drop offs to nursery for DD and CM for DS are not ideal but may be something we need to compromise on.

An au pair may be an option for the future but I believe DD is too young to leave in the care of an au pair and -despite our huge mortgage - we only have 3 bedrooms.

YANBU. DH and I have a higher combined income than yours and we can't afford a nanny either. Our mortgage is similar to yours at £1,300 a month. We currently pay £2,400 a month for a nursery who take our two dc 4 days a week, from 7.30am - 6.30pm but we still can't quite stretch to a nanny with the tax and NI on top. DS starts school in Sept and DD will also need to be looked after for 4 days a week, but we are using a local childminder who will do the school runs, look after dd and also ds during school holidays. I would prefer a nanny, but finances simply don't allow.

I bet it's not just the mortgage - I am sure that there is lots you could cut back on if you wanted - you most likely have an excessive lifestyle.

what is your net income and other large expenses per month?

And a big no to an at pair, they should not be in charge of under threes more should they work more than 25 hours a week!

It all comes out of net income, unlike a chauffeur which can be classed as a business expense . That's why employing a nanny is so expensive compared to the other people I employ (I run my own business so am an employer at work and at home).

Nanny is the only option for me too. Single parent, living in C London.. There are no childminders in Our area - its very expensive to live here and the social housing changes will worsen this as the few childminders left round here will end up having to move out eventually. No after school provision either.

Our mortgage is considerably lower than yours, but even then I can see that we would need to earn about £120k to afford a nanny 4 days a week at £10 ph net (about £12.50 gross). I am a bit puzzled as to how my parents afforded nannies when we were young as they weren't minted.

Breatheslowly : Supply was higher most likely.

Look OP, some people on here are going to get their knickers in a twist about people earning a decent amount of money. So it would probably have been better if you hadn't been quite so open about your earnings.

However, YANBU and if you live in London within zone 2, then £1700 PCM for a mortgage is par for the course. However, NEVER BEMOAN PAYING TOP WHACK FOR GOOD CHILDCARE. I get very p*ed off when people moan about paying someone to do the most important job in the world - looking after your child. Either pay it, and cut back where you can; or figure out a way to not work and look after kiddo yourself.

But childcare should cost a decent amount of money. It's a really important job. It's just a shame that the present government doesn't see fit to cut any working mothers any bloody slack at all and no part of childcare can be deemed a tax write off. It's common place misogyny if you ask me.