To not feel happy about 6 year old ds being 'tested' on fake words? Phonics.

[OHforDUCKScake]

And is this something all year one pupils have to do?

So the children learn the phonics, 'oa' 'air' 'ng' and so on.

Now, the government, since last year, want to test them on it. If they get a certain amount wrong, they fail and have to do it again.

The thing is, the way they test them is to give them fake words to check they really do know their phonics.

They will be given 20 real words and 20 fake workds and they have to get 34 out of 40 or their fail.

So, as long as they can read toast, fair, treat

As well as taim, roaf, rait

Then they will be ok.

I dont know where to start, honestly. First of all, testing them just so the government can see what the deal is, using them as guinea pigs it feels like. They are only 6!

Secondly, the weeks leading up to the test they have been teaching them fake non-words.

A test? At 6? That they can fail?

I asked if we were obliged to do this? Teachers are, and parents are. I have no choice but to let my son have the bullshit test.

If AIBU then thats fine, but he is our first so we dont know the drill and he is already struggling in some areas so possibly a little more sensitive than usual to him being taught bullshit words and being tested on them.

The literacy expert Professor Joan Freeman comments: "It is beyond belief. Any psychologist would say this is crazy.

Well, that discredits him immediately - educational psychologists have been using this check for years.

her

Good for you! We'll have to take your word for it, since you have failed to elaborate.

Not very relevant then really.

Feenie, that is a very impressive claim. Are you saying that you achieve pretty much 100% level 4 in your yr 6 reading? How do your writing results compare?

I already told you, our kids score higher than your according to a study of all OECD countries. Presumably not using phonics is working well for us.

Oh dear. It is over for Gove. The Daily Mail is on the case and the Daily Mail reader is unlikely to be impressed with alien words etc

"But the unions argue they risk making failures of pupils.
In a joint statement, the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, the National Association of Head Teachers and the National Union of Teachers say: ?The use of made-up words will confuse children for whom English is a second language and those with special educational needs as well as frustrating those who can read already.
?There are already enormous pressures on teachers to teach to the test, so how long will it be before children are being taught to read made-up words??
The unions say they do not object to the use of phonics, provided that the Government ?does not insist they are the only method?.
Schools minister Nick Gibb said: ?The unions? position is disappointing as many of their members have told us how this check will allow them to identify thousands who need extra help.?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160856/Zog-vot-snemp--phonics-test-angered-teachers-using-words.html

Have the unions set Gove et al up for a fall?

More or less the same - 93% perhaps is typical. And 50-70% level 5s, typically. In a socio-economically deprived area.

www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/reading-six-how-best-schools-do-it

I'll discuss it with you if and when you divulge the country.

Sorry, I've probably outed myself enough already with this rant!

Fair enough. If you say you have to continue to teach made-up words or you will fail a significant portion of your students fair play to you. We can agree to disagree.

Sorry for being ignorant but could someone explain the 'look and say' method?

It's always struck me that the point of phonics is to advance the cause of phonics.

I haven't read all of this thread yet, but I've noticed in past discussions that some of the supporters exhibit an almost religious zeal for the subject and find it hard to deal with people who don't think it's the holy grail.

My dd has this test on Monday. She is a strong reader, so I was concerned because I had heard that more confident readers had struggled because they tried to fit real words in.

Then I realised that the skill of identifying and blending the bits of words can be applied to fake words as well as real ones. And that readers will always come across unfamiliar words and the ability to decode them is vital.

Lord knows, I loathe Gove with every fibre of my being, though!

"The test has been criticised by teaching unions because of possible flaws and said it could do more damage than good.

They suggested that including made-up words such as 'chab' 'queep' and 'sarps' will frustrate those who can already read and confuse pupils who have special educational needs, or those for whom English is a second language.

Forty per cent ? nearly 237,000 children ? were below the pass mark. They were unable to read 32 words correctly out of 40."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2209671/More-235-000-year-old-pupils-fail-basics-reading-test-struggling-words-like-farm-goat.html

So what? Christine Blower can talk for me any time about pension rights - but she knows nothing about teaching reading. She is a secondary school teacher.

And Dr Mary Bousted has shown herself in phonics debates to be completely ignorant re phonics teaching.

When are the results out for this year's test?

If they are bad and deteriorating then Gove may face some difficult questions. He has been banging on about rigour and people will expect an improvement in standards. Having nonsense words in the test opens him up to talk of dumbing down etc and of confusing pupils.

I haven't read all of this thread yet, but I've noticed in past discussions that some of the supporters exhibit an almost religious zeal for the subject and find it hard to deal with people who don't think it's the holy grail.

Wouldn't you , if you knew of something which worked but which teachers ignored, shrugging and saying 'some children always struggle', remained ignorant of the research staring them in the face and failed thousands upon thousands of children, year upon year upon year? Would that be just a tiny bit frustrating - and yes, make you passionate? It's a very emotive subject.

Thanks for that link Feenie, I shall read it with interest.

If the results are bad and if the unions stick the boot in, then Gove might find himself alone on the dance floor. The Daily Mail won't back him. They don't like nonsense

This could harm his leadership ambitions. Thatcher was not for turning, but Gove has made more u-turns than a skater on thin ice already and one more could send him under.

Every cloud....

I find this thread a bit strange. I don't think I've ever learned any skill properly without breaking things down first. It's not dumbing down, quite the opposite, it's learning the basics well.

I shall simply have to agree to disagree with some posters on this thread. I and most of my colleagues (in a group of about twenty local schools who have met all year for phonics training/ discussion/ sharing of good practice) think this test (but not phonics teaching) is a waste of time. It's not that I/we disagree that teaching phonics doesn't have a place - it's fun, and of course helps with decoding. But no-one will ever convince me that other strategies should be thrown out of the window when teaching a child to read. I love teaching reading - it's something I feel very passionate about and something I feel I do well. I love giving the children the confidence to believe in themselves as readers. Whether or not my the children in my class can word attack a list of 40 real and nonsense words doesn't always have a bearing on how fluent, confident and happily they can read an actual book. I have a super reader in my class, who struggles with some of the sort of words the test asks him to read. He simply doesn't look at words in that way - he reads the whole book and reads many of the words through the sense of the book. He can recall every separate sound out of context. The nonsense words just confuse him.
And before that's taken out of context, he's just one child who reads like that. I have another child who has a super memory for letters and sounds and can read the list without a problem. But he's nowhere near as fluent a reader. Give him a real book and he can say the words, but will find questions about the text hard to answer.
Reading is about so much more than phonics.

shall simply have to agree to disagree with some posters on this thread.

And the research.