To think that my article is MY article and I have the right to tell a website who are using it without my permission to remove it??

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

I'm a copywriter, I write reams of website content and have today found one of my articles on a site called DocStoc which seems to be a place where people can use articles etc for free.

The article in question was written by me for a client and that client paid for the right to use it in their newsletter.

They are a small company and the website which has stolen it from my own portfolio on my website is asking me to go on their site and fill in a big legal form and give them my personal details.

The site in question is a large one and looks "legit" in that articles are uploaded by users who each have their own account...I don't want to give the site owners my personal details...and fill in their form I am not in the wrong.

They ask that we need you to comply with the notice of copyright infringement requirements of the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) if in fact there has been copyright infringement and you are authorized to request removal. and a lot of other blurb including a legal disclaimer. They link to a form which as I mention wants my name, telephone number and address.

Am I in my rights to email back and say "No I won't fill in your form, remove my article now." or similar.?? I am pissed off!

Oh yes and they say this We aren?t asking you to jump through hoops. We need to have you comply with the requirements for a few reasons. Sometimes we need to have a rights holder give us more information so we can locate the documents that are supposedly infringing. Also, and we aren?t saying this applies to you or your situation but sometimes people don?t really have the rights to the documents, or they might just be trying to improperly suppress information that doesn?t really infringe copyright,

I mean PISS OFF!

So whats to stop me telling every other website that they contain my work and to remove said content immediately? Of course they want you to make some small effort to prove you do own what you say you do, how else could it possibly work?

I can provide them with proof of MY choosing. But they're not dictating and having me fill in legal shit. I am the wronged party.

But they don't actually know that, do they? You could be anyone. They are asking you to comply with the DCMA, not just some shit they thought up for themselves. Be professional and do it properly.

If you sold the rights to the client then they've stolen from your client, not you. In fact, your client may have sold the article on...

No, Wilson...I know the client well. They had no part in it. You're right partly...but as the author I retain copyright I think...I am pretty sure that it's ultimately mine.

Well it's either yours or theirs and if they haven't sold it, it isn't the other website's... But I think you'll have to fill in the form to get them to do anything. If you don't want to give your personal details (understandably) could you use your client's business contact info?

If you sell copywright, surely you don't own it?

I would take it up firstly with the client you did the work for.

It's galling, but the wronged party ALWAYS has to jump through twatty hoops to get justice. That is the way of things. If it weren't we could all accuse everyone of stealing our ideas. They have to verify you are who you say you are and have the rights... else it's a waste of their time.

I do feel for you though, and I'm no expert, but when you exchange words for cash from clients, you tend to lose ownership.

I would talk to a solicitor in the field for more accurate advice!

If you write a dissertation and get a first, and it goes on to be published and earns squillions, the University owns the copyright, it's no longer yours, though I think they have to credit you as author.

I assume it's similar.

Aldi you don't sell the copyright unless you sign a legal document. Even with short fiction...I've had stuff published in UK mags and signed legal documents which only gives them the right to publish...not to exclusively own...and even then I can still use the copy...I can't re-sell it though.

Aldi kind of. I wrote some comedy sketches once for a BBC show...they made me sign a doc which said that they had the right to re-use them in any future DVDs or repeats for a fee...the fee wasn't a lot...so they could make a bomb yes, but I wouldn't.

This article is not the same though as no documents have exchanged hands...I signed nothing...I was paid for it by my client, I still own it.

If you've written for a client and they've paid you for it, it is their copyright, unless you have a clause in your contract that says otherwise.

no Ladybird it's not. I promise you...and legal on Mumsnet has also agreed this. It's mine. It remains the property of the author.

No, as a copywriter you have provided 'work for hire', which means that the client owns the copyright. I've been a freelance writer and journalist for years and don't own the copyright in anything I've written for a client. Not that I'd care to: once it's written, it's done.

Again, no...they have no right to use my work without my permission. I haven't provided work for hire...I am also on a thread in the Legal discussions area on MN and they are saying I am correct...but thanks anyway Ladybird.

Are you a member of The Society of Authors? They would look at this for you, for free.

No Punk..I am however thinking about joining the Writers' Guild.

Hi, I'm afraid you're wrong Neo and Ladybird is right, regardless of what 'legal' are saying. Copyright is a tricky legal area (and believe me I am well qualified to inform you on this). If you write something for a client, the copyright transfers to them unless you specifically retain it in a signed terms and conditions document by both you and the client. Also, if you have your work published online in a portfolio without specifically stating that you retain copyright, you're on dodgy ground, too. You need to be more careful. These websites are awful, but they will lift anything that is 'fair game' and I think it sounds like you haven't been very careful in protecting your copyright on this occasion.

In the UK copyright on commissioned written works remains with the author under 'first owner rule' unless stated otherwise in the contract. The person who commissions the work will have unlimited access to the work but will not own it, unless there are specifics in the contract that state it is a limited licence. Basically it really depends in the specific wording in the contract.

I remember this as I did a HNC manya few years ago and one of the units was 'Law in the communications industry' which was basically a unit covering copywrite laws in the UK and America. Now I know an HNC is not a big qualification and is certainly not the same as a law degree, but I do trust the information I was studying at the time is correct as it was taken from law text books.

Hot, can I hijack for a moment to ask a quick question - and feel free to tell me to piss off and pay for advice - but I have a website with many many pages, hundreds of articles. I have in the footer the little copyright sign and my business name, is that enough?

It's less than £100 to join the Society of Authors; they will vet all publishing contracts/publishing offers and deals and give unlimited individual and confidential advice on issues of copyright and much else to do with publishing. A bargain, IMO.

They also publish FREE online guides, for example:

www.societyofauthors.net/sites/default/files/Guide%20to%20Copyright%20and%20Moral%20Rights_0.pdf

Or, if you don't want to join, for £5 you can buy a guide to 'Claiming for Infringement' www.societyofauthors.net/guides-and-articles

Yes I would really plump for the SOA - they have helped me a copy of times and they always have the writers' interests at the heart of things.

I'mtoo - copyright sign means next to nothing I'm afraid - until it is backed up with it all being properly copywritten. Neither will sending work to yourself by post - a lot of these myths have sprung up and still persist. Pirating goes on an awful lot - it's infuriating. I think that people should be really careful about putting anything out on the Internet - most people will assume that they can crib them, that everything they see is free.

It's similar to the Writer's Guild in terms of price...the WG also offer legal advice and do the vetting thing. There's a pension to buy into too if I want.

Hotforteacher WFH arrangements are not applicable under UK intellectual property law.

Neo and Pumpkin are correct. Ownership of a copyright work under UK law will depend on the contractual arrangements between the person creating the work and the person or entity who pays for the work. The creator of a copyright work is the first owner. They can licence (allow someone to use the work for a limited time and/ or purpose) or assign (give away) their work but that must be done in writing.

The only similar provision to WFH under UK law is where an employee creates work for her/ his employer in the usual course of her/ his duties. In that instance the employer is the first owner of the work.

Neo I can understand why you are frustrated with the website which has published your work without consent but it is clearly a US website, and their procedures are different to ours. They are correct that your are required under US law to file a copyright infringement notice. They will argue that they need your contact details in case there is a challenge from a third party over ownership. However, they're probably just hoping that by getting you to fill in lots of paperwork you will go away.

I'mTooHecsy you could protect yourself to an extent by having very clear terms and conditions of use on your website, stating that you own all content. You can disable click and drag/ text selection as well. our web developer should be able to help with this, the coding is pretty simple.

I meant YOUR web developer... I don't have a web developer, I'm afraid. I'm just an IP lawyer.