to think that expensive school trips should be banned

[Nicola10]

Year 8 pupils have, today, left for a school trip to France. Very exciting for them, yes, considering that they will be going to a theme park, as well as educational stuff. But, for the rest of the kids, whose parents could not afford it, including my twins, they have to do normal lessons.

The cost for each child is £400 each!

I think it's outrageous that children of parents who have the money can have what is basically a holiday in term time given the massive fuss that's made if anyone asks for time off. Yes life isn't fair, but a state school shouldn't be providing better opportunities for some children based on their ability to pay. A trip at moderate cost would seem understandable if it supports the curriculum (and there is a fund for those who really can't afford it) but some schools seem to see themselves as travel agents. Yes, obviously some families will be able to pay for more opportunities to broaden their children's horizons, but why shouldn't that be organised outside school?

I had some of the absolute best days of my life on school trips abroad.

I can remember almost everything I learnt, and everywhere we went.

They are completely worthwhile.

Really? I can remember very little about my one trip abroad - mind you, it was the mid eighties, and I am v v old

As someone heavily involved in the PTA there is no way i would use the funds to pay for these trips. Subsidise primary day trips for all but not for a few to go abroad.

Parents make choices every day so could budget if it means a lot to them. If everything gets handed to a child on a plate without them seeing somebody working hard to do that for them then why even try in life later?

I think expensive trips that parents are charged for should only be offered during the school holidays.

As a teacher I frequently get told that the year group is on a trip, except for maybe 10-20%, whose parents have decided not to/ can't afford it. The whole year group is off timetable, so the remainder are put together in a couple of groups to do "educational activities"

I feel very sorry for them, as it is much more obvious who can/ can't pay, than during the school holidays.

A better option would be to run cheaper trips that either the school can afford to pay for everyone, or for the school to put a small amount of money aside for students who otherwise could not afford to go.

Happymummy if you have to make a choice between heating your home and feeding your child, or saving for a school trip - what are you likely to do?

Frogspoon, how would the school truly know who couldnt pay? If they are spending money elsewhere why should the school pay for a trip abroad?

Those on benefits can easily have a higher disposable income than some workers so its not an indicator.

I agree that they should take place outside term time where possible so as to not miss schoolwork.

YADNBU. Almost £600 for my dcs year 5 and 6 residential (combined!). Too much in my opinion - way to much. State school as well.

My Neice is currently in the Bahamas to complete some work for her degree. Her father can afford it over indulged in every aspect of her lifebut I dread to think how some will afford it, and maybe even get further into debt.

I agree with MrsTerryPratchett

They either are or aren't educationally essential. If they are, they should be funded or heavily subsidised and available to all, or they're not and they should be stopped.

We are well enough off to afford the trips comfortably with plenty of warning, but I do resent the feeling we are being guilt tripped into spending a large amount of money (around £1000 a year as 4 dcs) on these trips. I often write to the school when the trips exceed £300 or so, to say that I think they place unnecessary financial pressure on families . We are not in an affluent area and I hate to think of the sacrifices and stress caused by these trips.

Love to know how i can save when i max out on my overdraft every month lol

I am a firm believer that everything in a state school should be accessible to all the students. Of course life isn't fair - children discover that very quickly - and yes, some people have exciting holidays and big homes and others do not. But at school we should have a level playing field.

I could now afford to send my dd on an expensive trip but I remember what it felt like as a child when I couldn't go because my parents really wanted me to go, but they just didn't have enough money.

Actually, I feel really strongly about this.

Luis, heat and food come first i agree but if you want trips and your income doesnt stretch then you take on a second job, move employer etc rather than expect others to pay.

Children are and always have been an expense. There are many that choose dont work or work little but still expect their child to be given everything others have or moan life isnt fair.

Secondary school doesnt start for 11 years, plenty of time to save or change circumstances if you want the full high shool experience of trips abroad.

Happymummy don't you get that it's not "spending money elsewhere" for some parents? It's just not having it. The state education system is designed to give all pupils a fair chance at education, regardless of wealth. If "educational" trips are then introduced at a cost to parents, then it doesn't stack up, does it?

Secondary school doesnt start for 11 years, plenty of time to save or change circumstances if you want the full high shool experience of trips abroad.

Children should get the full high school experience without being singled out because of their income.

YABVU
I told my kids they cold go on 1 trip abroad while in secondary school. They both waited till 6th form and went on an amazing educational trip directly related to their A levels and what they want to do in Uni. 1 had it paid for as his 18th birthday present and 1 paid for half himself. We could never have afforded to take them as a family and it was an amazing and valuable experience.

I love the idea that everyone can take on two jobs or move employers. Yeah, in this climate people are begging to pay people more money. Then there is university planning, goodness knows that costs. And, giving them a deposit because there's no way they will be able to buy a house without one. It is all a little, "let them eat cake". Some people, really quite a lot, work hard and have no spare money.

YANBU. Schools should be about inclusiveness.

Those that say it is tough if some cant afford to go and that it is unfair to deny those that can afford to go. Why is ok to be unfair to those that can't afford it and not the richer ones that can? Poor children face unfairness on a daily basis, let the kids whose parents can afford it experience it for once.

What MTP said

Why do so many assume the expensive trips start in secondary school. In the schools round here the year 6 residential is £400 and year 5 about £200.

If then it continues into years 7,8,9,etc, that is a lot of money for an average family to find. Particularly if they have more than one child.

HappyMummy

if the trips were banned, no one would have to pay for them and people with money to spare could save to go on their own trips in the school holidays.

Expensive school trips which most children are expected to go on are relatively new. My dcs at juniors have recently been on trips totalling £400, it's not just senior school we're talking about.

Also are you aware that many people at the moment work very hard and have no money to spare? It's an economic fact, not an opinion.

I'm a teacher at an FE College and I point blank refuse to run expensive trips for the very simple reason that some students wouldn't be able to afford to go. I teach in an area which is quite deprived and although some teachers and students ask every year to go to New York (I teach drama), I won't do it. I run a few trips every year - London theatre and local stuff too. But a variety of experiences, educationally relevant, and planned at the start of the year with the 'expensive' (never more than £80) option at the end.

I used to work in an area with a much more mixed demographic. A really deprived area right near a much more affluent one. That college ran an annual NY trip for 4 days costing £800. I went on it in my first year there. Totally pointless. One theatre visit, one tv studio, then sightseeing (empire state, statue etc). Most of the girls spent all their time in Bloomingdales. For less than £100 we could have gone to a show in London and visited a tv studio here.

IMO colleges (don't know about schools as they don't necessarily have the same recruitment issues) compete to put on the most impressive trips. Some students go on and on about wanting to go to NY. I tell them to save up and go in the holidays. I won't run a trip where anyone would feel left out - how horrible.

Its naive and to be frank, quite nasty, to just assume that those who cant afford it are not working hard enough or should budget better.

I think state school should be as inclusive as it can be. One decent residential would be enough, with subsidies for those that cant afford it, or fund raising to reduce the cost to all.

Paper rounds are a good way for kids to contribute to the cost of a shool trip that they really want to go on. It's fairly common round our way for kids to fund raise by doing odd jobs as well.

My DC would most likely go on these trips, i would get a pay day loan or get into more debt for it.

I refuse to let my DC miss out.

I know the feeling, where all my friends was talking about going to disney land paris with the school. My parents couldnt afford it and i was gutted and after that i was very down hearted and started skipping lessons. My logic back then is what is the point. I tried my hardest and only got E-F grades and the nice things was out of reach.