to think that expensive school trips should be banned

[Nicola10]

Year 8 pupils have, today, left for a school trip to France. Very exciting for them, yes, considering that they will be going to a theme park, as well as educational stuff. But, for the rest of the kids, whose parents could not afford it, including my twins, they have to do normal lessons.

The cost for each child is £400 each!

The reason we don't have many trips is, it takes the students away from lessons for too long, and this impacts on their learning

they are always in school holidays at our school hmm maybe that's why they are so expensive!

I reckon it would be the latter, LaQueen.

In the same way you find lots of socialists very happy to send their own children to private schools (but no, no, that's because their child has more unique needs, of course.)

It was I (or I was someone who did, at any rate) who mentioned Kenya, but it certainly didn't cost £4k!

Well, I'm still no more sure what I think about this, other than that I now know not all schools handle it too sensibly, perhaps.

Stand by principles. Obviously.

Say that as someone who can afford them anyway, but think it is bloody ridiculous that schools offer ludicrous luxury holidays.

School trips should always be affordable to most ordinary families, and schools should make provisions so that children whose families can't afford even modest trips aren't left behind.

It's not a lot to ask, really.

If Schools have very Expensive trips and Holidays, they most have hardship funds to ensure all pupils regards of wealth are able to go if the trips are relevant to Education. If the trips are Holidays that only unveil the haves and have not"s. that is totally wrong i appreciate that some parents think that the Expensive trips are worth going without for but that again is so wrong. Its the same sort of pressure advertising kids toys at christmass. Another rather old thing is some of the schools in areas of Economic Hardship, have some of the most expensive trips totally inapproprite and wrong. If the Schools insist on having these expensive trips, the schools should ask for a surcharge on the trip ensuring those who would like to go but cant for financial reasons can go.

YANBU OP. It's a school's job to educate its pupils and foster a good community spirit among the children who attend, not play into the inevitable divisiveness of who is wealthier than thou.

Of course life isn't fair, but school is not a place where this truth needs to be accentuated. The pupils will know already, according to who goes on holiday where and how often, what birthday presents are given, what labels children wear etc.

The ethos of a good school should be to promote excellent learning available at all times to all pupils. Anything which diverges too far from this isn't good schooling.

My Dc are going to an independent secondary school and there are cheap and expensive trips on offer - several each year. I've told them if they're off to China or India, I'm coming too. Those once in a lifetime holidays will be with the family, shared memories, not left to the school to create. But they're welcome to the field trips in Wales

BigBoobiedBertha, the same kind of factors that feed poverty, tend to feed abuse.

This argument reminds me of people who claim that Christians face the same kind of persecution as do Muslims. Sure, there are some Christians who face discrimination. I'm sure it's a terrible experience. But Christians are not as a whole under fire.

apatchylass so it's not okay for there to be apparently divisive school trips in schools, but independent secondary schools, which few can afford, is totally okay

My DH was raised by socialist parents. His sisters are even further to the left. Have even called their bro a capitalist bastard on occasion. When a grand or two has been sent in times of need - I've never known them send back his ill gotten gains .

married that reminds me of a thread on here recently where a woman was being abusive to a christian man giving her a food parcel and offering her a leaflet or something as he gave it to her, about him forcing his religion on her or something, but she still happily took the parcel.

BaconKetchup, kids who attend independent schools tend to have common socio-economic backgrounds. The issue of divisiveness falls away.

As for people becoming more affluent and then changing their views - of course this happens. That's why people tend to try to reach a consensus as a group rather than any one individual making a decision for all.

I'm not sure that's right actually Crowler. Here, there are plenty of children at the dc's schools who, although their parents have a healthy income, are absolutely down to brass tacks due to the school fees, have duck tape on their cars and certainly cannot afford the school trips. Both parents tend to working their socks off and their DC who might live in a three bed semi or a London terrace (often with a high value admittedly) are going to school with the children of investment bankers and magic circle lawyers whose parents might treat themselves to a convertible because the sun comes out. I know it's relative but I still think those children feel it similarly to some who are more deprived elsewhere.

Life will never be fair; in some cases parents are able to work their socks off to make it as fair as possible; in others the parents need a community's help and support in every way possible. What irks me are the parents who complain in London where there are jobs, even if they are menial, who are fit and well and whose children are fit and well but where the mother will not work, often because she says she is too busy running her home and running round after her children. That's the bit I don't get.

We are privileged and the DC can have the trips, within reason and we limit it; that does not make it fair that there are two of them and not three. That was not fair and I would have given up every privilege, every penny, every advantage if it had meant that DS2 could have lived. That would have been a privilege - not watching a baby ebb away in my arms. Perhaps you have to hit rock bottom to understand fair.

Life, water, food, safety from predators, warmth, bit of comfort, satisfaction, pleasurable things - school trips are a pretty long way down the food chain.

Still unsure what cheap/expensive/very expensive and ostentatious means in monetary value or what an ordinary family is (I thought I was but apparently because I can send my kids to France I am in fact wealthy!). But still I find this if all cant go no one does baffling as how do you send an entire year to France or send the ones who cannot afford France to Wales ( their will still be those who cannot afford Wales).
Then there is the fundraising how do you fundraise in the most deprived areas. I checked the FSM for my children DS1 and DD the % for free school meals is 3% my DS2 his special school was 37% a know the bigger the percentage the more pupil premium you get but still this does not account for those who earn to much for help but not enought to pay for trips. Which again leads to better trips being offered to those in more affluent schools. Not sure where Muslims and Christians fit into the argument?

Marriedinwhiteagain, I think that's why I said they "tend" to have a common socio-economic background. But as a long-time lurker, it's always nice to hear your explanations of private school life.

Squidworth, the Muslim/Christian reference was an analogy.

Haven't read the whole thread sorry since it's so long so apologies if this has been said before, however given the state of university funding in the UK it's a good idea for children to get a feel for foreign countries in an educational context as going abroad for uni may be their best option.

It's not fair on kids who have poorer parents I agree, but how that situation might be resolved is obviously controversial. I don't buy "life isn't fair" as justification for anything, just as well the suffragettes didn't just shrug and accept life is unfair isn't it?

squidworth for some people £20 or even £5 is too much. This whole thing seems silly to me. There will always be people for whom a certain amount is too much.
The answer is not just to ban everything.

BaconKetchup. Well said.

Yeah - too right - fuck the poor!

Headsdown. I know what it is like to live on next to nothing. I am just not as bitter or jealous as some that others have more money than me.

I didn't go on all the school trips, although mum mum got me on a lot. She worked 3 jobs. She gave up smoking. And I got to do things that I wouldn't have done if we had to do it as a family.

Yes sometimes people are near or under the breadline. But there is normally help to be had.

Well.. You know in that case, trips alone are not the problem
Year 11 has entailed a year group photo, a year book, a trip (yes sorry) to alton towers, prom, prom dress, shoes.. School is expensive but on the other hand, I'd be sad to see those things go.

I don't think anyone has suggested banning all school trips - people are just being melodramatic when they talk about 'banning everything'.

I just think, as do a lot of posters, that there should be a sensible ceiling on the cost of school trips, and that schools should work to put a policy in place, whereby pupils whose families can't afford even modest extras, are not excluded from the trip for financial reasons. I don't think that's a policy hard working, loving families would take advantage of - but it would be good to know that it is there, in case you get to the point where there are no more sacrifices to be made.

Yeah, I think that would be good too.

Let's say schools did have to provide 'sensibly'priced school trips.

Who decides what is sensible?

Some parents can easily afford £400 (op's stated amount) for others that will never be affordable.