to think that expensive school trips should be banned

[Nicola10]

Year 8 pupils have, today, left for a school trip to France. Very exciting for them, yes, considering that they will be going to a theme park, as well as educational stuff. But, for the rest of the kids, whose parents could not afford it, including my twins, they have to do normal lessons.

The cost for each child is £400 each!

Are we saying that only children at private schools should be allowed to go on expensive (however you define that) trips?

Because that would be shit.

cloud and trees

THEY CAN GO IN THE HOLIDAYS

SCHOOLS SHOULD OFFER THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES FOR ALL

BECAUSE THAT IS FAIR

AND WHAT THE SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED TO DO

Or at least be honest

I hate all this pretence

Just say:

I can afford for my children to do lovely things both in and out of school and really don't give a flying fuck about the others.

Stop the sanctimonious faux arguments.

hullygully what about families who aren't able to afford going abroad as a family, but might be able to save for a school trip for their child to go abroad once and experience another culture?

you want to remove that opportunity

hully

Most people think it's a shame that others can't afford it. I don't think anyone on here 'doesn't give a flying fuck' about other children.

Hully, no need to shout.

Where does it say the system was designed to offer the same opportunities to all? Or is that some theoretical 'in theory' made up bullshit that only works on paper?

In reality state schools vary wildly in standards. Some are shit, others are brilliant. Using your logic we should teach all kids at the same shit level to ensure it's fair to all. After all...school's should offer the same opportunities right? And if one school is better than others then that's unfair on the kids going to the weak school. It's not the child's fault is it?

That's about the sum of your rather illogical argument isn't it?

Do you think that somehow if schooltrips were banned that suddenly kids would be going to some sort of egalitarian meritocracy? Good god...how simplistic.

Have you seen how many kids nowadays sport the latest smartphones? Should we be banning all smartphones because I can't afford to buy my child the latest whizziest smartphone?

I can afford for my children to do lovely things both in and out of school and really don't give a flying fuck about the others.

Erm...no. And I don't have a clue how you arrived at that conclusion.

niceguy (et al)

You keep coming up with faux arguments that have nothing to do with SCHOOLS

smartphones are irrelevant

we are talking about what schools offer to their children.

ffs

No wonder I shout

Are you lying even to yourselves?

Do you really lack the courage of your Ayn Rand convictions?

*I can afford for my children to do lovely things both in and out of school and really don't give a flying fuck about the others.

Stop the sanctimonious faux arguments.*

This.
It is school, education and compulsary. These trips are extras, either make them available for all or for none.

State schools should not provide opportunities that a limited number of people can afford. That is not their function. They are not there to provide trips to the wealthier kids. They are state schools ffs. Sometimes I think people forget this.

What next?

YANBU- it just benefits

• the rich children who will most probably be going on foreign holidays with their parents anyway, so who have less 'need' for the educational experience an expensive school trip offers

and it penalises

• the poor who can't afford those trips at all and feel rubbish about this
• the in-between who will bow under peer pressure and scrimp and save to make it possible for their kids to go, and perhaps so miss out on a family holiday and feel rubbish about this

at my DDs school trips are affordable, and there is a hardship fund for those on FSM. It's a very inclusive school, one of the reasons DH and I chose it for our children.

I'd even venture the thought that if it's so easy for you to find 3,000 quid to send their children on a school trip to New York, you're not paying enough income tax. If you did, and that money was invested in education, perhaps more could be done to part-subsidise school trips for children from deprived backgrounds.

Hullygully, that is bit of a generalisation. Lots of people on here have said they could not always/ever afford school trips but still did not want them to be banned. You are accusing the 'rich' to not care about anyone but themselves and people who can at the moment afford to send their children on school trips are accusing you of the same. I think it is quite important in this day in age to realise that financial situation can take dramatic turns, both ways. If you could in a few months or years afford a school trip you cannot at the moment, will you still feel they should be banned? And people who can now afford it , who is to say they always will? I think both side of this argument are pretty selfish to be honest!
[dons hard hat and sits on fence]

your children, not their children

There's really no need to internet shout Hully. It doesn't make my agree with you any more.

Schools are offering the same opportunities for all when they organise trips. It's up to the parents whether they can allow their children to make use of those opportunities or not.

You seem determined to believe that anyone who agrees with schools providing travel opportunities couldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else and that it must automatically mean they can provide similar experiences out of school, and you are quite simply wrong about that.

There are loads of children from families where there is a younger sibling who would be too young to go on the type of trip the school is offering. There are children from families where the parents have caring responsibilities and cannot afford for the whole family to go or leave their dependants, or take them with them.

There is no way my family would be able to go skiing. DS1 has AS and really wouldn't manage a week skiing, and DH couldn't go because he would be likely to end up in hospital because of an existing injury. We couldn't afford it for all of us anyway. The only way DS2 will be able to experience skiing before he is at least 25 is to go with the school. I'm grateful that he will have the opportunity to have an experience that we simply can't provide.

Clouds, harsh as it sounds, it's the kids who can't go on trips that are also less likely to go to uni. I've been there, finished school at 16 and went straight into work because I knew how little money we had. I wish I'd stayed in education, but that simply wasn't an option.

And I went on the damn trips. I felt guilty the whole time because I knew we couldn't really afford it.

School trips are just the tip of the iceberg. The whole system is flawed, and it's the less well off that end up cleaning toilets and flipping burgers. There is no equality in education because there is no equality in society.

They are not there to provide trips to the wealthier kids. They are state schools ffs. Sometimes I think people forget this.

No, they aren't there to provide trips for wealthier kids. They are there to enable children to achieve their potential and to provide them with educational opportunity. Which can be partly facilitated by trips!

Yes, they are state schools. As in, schools for everybody. Not just schools for the poor.

So it's fine for schools to perpetuate the wealth and class divide?

yeah right

nice

I'd even venture the thought that if it's so easy for you to find 3,000 quid to send their children on a school trip to New York, you're not paying enough income tax.

FFS I have heard it all now, what absolute bollocks

"AIBU to be annoyed and upset because my baby has had an accident in the unsafe second hand pram i bought because i wanted to start saving for the school trips that he will be going on"

Yes, they are state schools. As in, schools for everybody. Not just schools for the poor

Careful...you risk sounding resentful that the poor are spoiling your fun.

I'd even venture the thought that if it's so easy for you to find 3,000 quid to send their children on a school trip to New York, you're not paying enough income tax.

So we should be taxed at whatever level it takes to level the disposable income playing field? That's bull!

Tantrums ive only just caught your post about those school books That is disgusting. I would be speaking to the local press.

My point is that kids compare. Do you honestly think that scrapping school trips will stop that? of course it won't. Kids will be painfully aware of what they can/cannot afford.

Your argument is based upon the premise that rich kids can go and poor kids cannot. And that's unfair. But your logic is flawed. I'm far from rich. At best a middle income family. But I can afford for my kids to go if I budget wisely. None of my children's friend's are rich. In fact I don't have one "rich" friend. Yet they get to go. In fact, some friends earn significantly less than us...but their kids are going.

And i don't know about your local secondary. But ours has about 260 kids per year. Out of which they take around 30 kids which usually is vastly oversubscribed. Using maths you can easily see that the majority actually don't get to go at all.

Using your mentality education would be a boring and crap place to be since you'd be constantly teaching at the bottom.

Clouds, your logic strikes me as flawed:

just as a public library which can only be accessed via a steep set of stairs does not offer access to everyone, as the elderly, the disabled and perhaps parents with pushchairs can't access, so do schools which organise expensive trips do not 'offer these to everyone'. There is a steep financial barrier which can not be overcome by a sizeable minority of the pupils, usually the ones who would benefit most from such a trip.

According to your way of thinking, private schools offer access to every child too provided mummy and daddy pay for the privilege

Financial apartheid is a real problem. And state schools organising trips not affordable, and therefore open, to all, perpetuate this.

As a child I have no memory of feeling second class because I couldn't go my parents could not afford it and that was that, i dont think i even asked. I wanted to go to skiing and as soon as I got a job it was the first thing I saved for (I was crap and hated it) so maybe not going actually helped me. I love culture and any chance to experience it is great and I would like as many children to have the opportunity and to close that would be a shame for all, because on every coach there will be a few children where this will be their highlight of childhood. I paid for niece to go to France on school trip, many years ago she loved it so much she went on to work in languages and now lives in Paris inspired by one opportunity.

If anything, school trips contribute to narrowing the wealth and class divide.

Whether you are prepared to admit to it or not, there are children who couldn't go abroad any other way. Surely those children being given the opportunity to broaden their experiences at school is helping to provide them with something they could otherwise never have, thereby making their life experience more in line with that of their slightly better off peers?

But of course, on MN, the only children that matter and are deserving of anything are the very poorest.