to share with you this gem - do you know who is being a burden on the NHS?

[NorthernLurker]

Women doctors (Daily Telegraph link) Of course! Yes those naughty women getting trained and then having babies. How very dare they. Sayeth two women MPs........who need to visit the most male chauvinist GPs they can find for their own safety in the future. Guess who won't be getting the speculum warmed?

I despair, I really do. Don't read the comments btw unless your blood pressure is dangerously low.

I think those figures are useful but only if you use the same terms for all public sector careers. How much does it cost to "train" a teacher to HT level? How much does it cost to "train" a nurse to Band 7? How much does it cost to "train" someone to senior level in the Civil Service?

I wouldn't have a problem signing an agreement to work exclusively for the State/NHS. But I'm not sure all other public sector workers would agree.

I would have a problem with being forced to work FT (48hrs contracted) for my entire working life. Especially when I already work as many hours "PT" as many other NHS workers (eg our Midwives are on standard 37 hour pw contracts).

Revolting peasant - working in the private sector is discouraged.. In my experience job plans for new consultants (and many existing ones) simply do not allow any time for private practice during the week. Any private work will have to be undertaken outside of normal working hours ie in the evening or at the weekend.

So how long do you think before greedy doctors ( and nurses etc) are expected to take a massive pay cut for more work the wheels fall off the nhs and virgin plc and others (likely with hunts mates on their boards) step in to cream off the lucrative stuff.
The media campaign against doctors is just softening us up for this surely.

Sybil, I'm really not pretending to be some kind of expert, I read an article, read a thread, then had a thought. It's not something I am passionately going to argue for.

I would absolutely love to see much bigger bursaries for medical students to encourage increased access to the profession. Those might come with a binding clause that recipients had to work exclusively for the NHS for some set time.

This I am for 100%. I currently have a 13yo son whose long term goal for the last two years has been to perform organ transplants and separate Siamese twins, and no idea how I'm supposed to help him get there!

Jolly that's interesting! What is weird is, the big local NHS teaching hosp is right across from a private hospital. Many surgeons who work at the NHS hosp are also down as doing a clinic every week at the private hosp - well, several that I've looked up for one reason or another. I wonder if they all work pt or if they somehow work longer hours 4 days a week to make up for it? Not that you'd know, just speculating...

In my profession we are actively encouraged to take on external work contracts as it's seen as 'enterprising' and cv building, but we mostly don't get paid for it.

Clouds many universities have widening participation programmes (WP) or hardship bursaries. You likely won't have to pay fees up front to the tune of none grand but you should think about living costs etc. many students from less privileged backgrounds live with their families and attend a university within commuting distance.

But I also wanted to be a surgeon when I was 13 - it didn't last!

Well (very simply put) an evening a week "on call" at the NHS hospital will count towards your sessions so eg if you are contracted for 10 "sessions" a week, you may manage to fit in a half day private clinic on a weekday using the time "off" in lieu of your evening/overnight session (massive oversimplification!).

But most will do their private work in the evenings or weekends.

Clouds I came from a "non traditional" background to medicine and had no financial help from family through med school. It's do-able but with the new fees they will all be graduating with debts bigger than many people's mortgages. My debts at graduation, aged 23, were 50k and that was with paying no fees.

Is the job worth it? Every single day of the week. No regrets. But it's a big financial millstone to live with. Just something to be aware of for any DC considering medicine now!

Thanks, that makes sense. I did wonder how ft staff managed to be elsewhere during the day.

It actually also makes me feel more charitable towards my consultant - I get irrationally annoyed with him sometimes so at least I know the scheduling isn't his fault.

Now, if I could just persuade him to stop calling me a 'bright young girl'...

Thank you Revolting.

He's not necessarily less privileged, but the medical route still seems a very daunting prospect!

Vinegar, that's exactly what I mean!

It's great to hear that you feel it's worth it though.

Revolting, one of the major factors causing the waiting lists isn't the number of doctors, its the lack of operating theatres, lack of clinic rooms and lack of support staff.

Do not let any of your DC study medicine. It is not worth the hassle, expense and ill treatment via the media. You only have to look at the constant drip drip of doctor bashing articles. Why would you want to graduate with £50K plus of debt for that. Oh, and to be reminded daily by the daily mail that you earnings are supposed to be £250K (er really?!)
No child of mine will be encouraged to follow my path. Solicitor, Engineer, plumber brickie I don't care, but over my dead body will I give them my blessing to study medicine.

Yes, you're probably right! Woke up after my last op to find a nurse handing me my phone and asking if I could ring do as there was no bed for me. Eek! Our local hospital is totally stretched; I guess as a patient you just experience it as one big conglomeration and don't see all the different parts and how they work together.

Itchy are you going to leave? You shouldn't - all public sector workers get it - hcps most as the NHS is such a visible and costly public service. Don't listen to the propaganda!

I think the vast majority of doctors would agree with itchy tbh. I certainly won't be actively encouraging any of my DC into medicine.

But I do love my job. Which helps! Actually a bug part of why I love my job is that I can work PT. It means I can give my all in a demanding and 24/7 speciality, while still having time at home while my kids are young. If PT working wasn't an option, there is no way I personally could train in the speciality that I am.

Here are the pay scales for junior Doctors It's not great pay . One of my DCs is in the third year at medical school but is well aware that he could have earned a lot more if he had gone into finance instead. He choose medicine as he finds it interesting and rewarding.

I hope he still thinks this in the years to come.

No, not going to leave, as at 37 I'm now getting too old to retrain to do much else. My priority is my newborn twins, work pays the bills, it is a job, not a vocation. I paid my dues to the NHS working as a junior doctor full time (70-100 hr weeks) and it stole my 20s. It will not steal precious time with my children.
However, if some jumped up bird in Westminster wants me to work full time, then I would be off like a shot. I'd rather work in IKEA.

22k is what I started on, I swear. I can't believe it hasn't gone up at all in 6 years! (Well, I can, but YKWIM.)

This is nothing more than just another stick to beat women with, right?

What do people who complain about this sort of thing actually want to happen?

Do they just want women to go back into the home, know their place, and keep quiet like they used to? Well, it's not going to happen.

Instead of berating women for not being able to do it all, i.e. incubate children, bear them, raise them, work and contribute to the family coffers, mortgage and general economy ... why not start asking men to step up to the plate?

I've written about this on my blog here. wp.me/p2J1P5-5A

It makes me furious that on the one hand, girls are being criticised for not being aspirational or ambitious enough, and the next minute doctors are being villified for wanting flexible working.

Blimey, wish I was a GP working part-time and still earning £££.

Eh? Where are the PT GPs earning a fortune?

(i am obviously in the wrong speciality!)