To think that british mothers would benefit from a Finish style maternity pack

[ReallyTired]

In the UK low income mothers get a surestart grant, but in Finland the governant gives all mothers a box with a range of stuff in it or mothers can opt to take cash (140 euros).

I imagine that the Finish governant can negioate really good deals with baby clothes manufactorers and buy in bulk. It means that the money goes further. I feel that having the option of a box instead of a surestart grant would mean that mothers would get more without costing the governant more. The box includes toys, books, breastpads and even condoms. There is none of the crap associated with the dreaded bounty packs. It also ensures that the tax payers's money actually gets spent on the baby.

Finish baby pack

Apparently this pack has reduced infant mortality and encouraged mothers to attend ante natal care.

The only downside is whether we would really want every baby in the UK dressed the same.

I don't see they can attribute the box to lowering infant mortality. I've just looked up the UKs figures for the same period and they have plummeted much more quickly - presumably through vaccination, better diet, better medicine and SCB Units, reduction in rates of smoking, awareness of SIDs and so forth.

But of course this is probably the key - co-sleeping is so fraught with danger the Finns are ahead of the game:

"Babies used to sleep in the same bed as their parents and it was recommended that they stop," says Panu Pulma, professor in Finnish and Nordic History at the University of Helsinki. "Including the box as a bed meant people started to let their babies sleep separately from them."

It's a shame there isn't the same drive here

I have just had a relative make use of the SureStart grant she lives in a Mum and Baby unit, so the girls are in th esame position.

I also work with families "in need".

The first problem with the box, is that not every one qualifies when pregnant, you have 12 weeks to claim the grant after birth and it then can take time to come through, so baby can be 4 months old.

As said, many people get lots given to them, people rally round for those in genuine need and say the grant for a big purchase, such as a decent buggy.

We used to have clothing schemes for "children in need" and there was stigma around the families who used it.

Many of the items in the box can be picked up weekly, i and most Nans i know cannot wait to get baby clothes shopping (as well as other relatives), so the basics are covered, even in "poor" families.

Schemes such as this never end upcosting less than giving cash and cash can be put to better use.

Moses baskets are not really done in Finland, so the box is useful if you don't want to put baby straight into cot.

Snowsuits even for small babies absolutely get masses of wear and the sizes provided in the box tend to be big, so that virtually everyone will be able to use them at some point them (however, you might have to roll the sleeves etc. on small DC and they might look a bit swamped). People will go out with small babies and leave them out to nap in low temperatures and a snowsuit is a must (as well as blankets/cosytoes).

There is a fairly hight tax rate to pay for all sorts of stuff like this, but generally people accept it as necessary for the common good.

I can see the pros (bulk buying or donation from companies for marketing purposes keeping costs down) and the cons (some of it might be wasted). I think it's good people have a choice between the box or the money.

What I really like is the idea of a cardboard box as a bed. I never wanted to put a tiny baby in a cot, as it is too big and you want something portable. A cardboard box with a mattress designed to fit it is a really sensible idea. I find moses baskets really fiddly. If I got pregnant now, I'd buy one from Finland.

I love this idea!

It would be much better to have this offered to all mothers rather than the sure start grant that is only available to some, and I think should be scrapped anyway.

In Finland you also get fairly generous benefits from the government if you take care of your own children at home until they are 3, and then there is free nursery care (although I think it's not universal any more and most nurseries have waiting lists)..

Lots of things are different.

I think this is a lovely idea, and quite a bonding thing too, meeting another mum with a baby in 'box' leggings, for example.

I think particularly for a first-time clueless mum, perhaps with minimal family support, this would be a very comforting universal gesture.

I was entitled to a maternity grant and I can account for every penny!

£250 birth to potty reusable nappies, still in constant use at 16mo (eBay)

£100 clothes and blankets for the first 6 months (charity shops)

£100 carseat

£50 second hand maternity clothes (eBay)

So it's all very well being fucking judegy and assuming poor scroungers should have to get vouchers so they can't spend your tax money injecting smack into their pregnant belly but actually vouchers wouldn't have stretched half as far as that since they would have had to of been spent in high street stores on new stuff.

Also not all 'poor' people necessarily have granny to buy all their baby clothes

Hmmpffh!

Patpig, just watched your link of the woman giving birth and it was wonderful.

However give me warmth, privacy and major drugs.

About the box idea it's nice but can't see its cost effective and can't see the link with reduced rates of infant mortality.

"Also not all 'poor' people necessarily have granny to buy all their baby clothes"

No, they don't but many have friends, family and support agencies who can supply basic stuff.

Unless you have had very little money coming in, some pregnant women live on less than £60 a week, you don't realise why the SureStart grant is so important.

It is a very useful large amount of money and if you live in a big city with plenty of discount tyoe shops, you can kit a baby out ,including equipment, for the amount given.

For anyone struggling to give away baby clothes, i would contact women's aid type organisations, as well as asking in the Children's Centre, as many take donantions for families under SS etc.

I agree that we cannot be compared to Finland, they have a completely different Welfare system.

I disagree with the sure start grant so think this one is even worse. Having a child comes with great expense, it should be down to the parents not other tax payers to fund that choice or hand presents over.

The money it would cost could be far more useful to schools or hospitals.

HappyMummy, you HAVE heard of "accidental pregnancy" haven't you?

My friend had a SureStart Maternity Grant and it paid for loads of baby stuff, all second hand. She spent it on essentials for her baby, (that's a new member of the human race btw, for those of you sniffing about maternity grants).

I DO believe in maternity grants for those who need them and it's up to them how it is spent. If they are lucky then a relative comes up with the cot, pram etc and they can spend it on baby clothes and nappies etc. if they are unlucky and have nobody to help then it has to do everything. Thankfully many furniture projects exist which can help parents to be who have very little. I have helped young parents get cots, prams etc.

And in my local area is a young Mum to be of 16, her parents have disowned her and she has nothing. She is with an older relative but not one who can afford to get any baby stuff. She NEEDS the maternity grant to help and someone alongside her who can support her to make the most of it (which is where I come in as a parent volunteer). What she does not need is judgemental remarks and comments. She is already starting from nothing.

Happy I'm with you, the parents should provide, but many do not or simply cannot, and it's the kids who suffer, and I don't think that's ok in civilised countries in 2013. Besides, if you continue your logic about parents funding their choice, surely all schooling should also be paid for by the parents and not the state?

I'd also love to know where they find gender neutral clothes beause I'd bloody love something for DS that isn't covered in tools, cars or tractors.

Money better spent on schools on hospitals!?!

£500 wouldn't cover the cost of House of Commons stationary for 1 mp for a year.

It costs £500,000 to make a tomahawk missile and despite being one if the richest organisations in the world Raytheon (who make the tomahawk missiles) receive mind boggling subsidies from the public purse.

But of course no, the money should be taken from the most vulnerable and needy in society

I reaaaaaallllllyyyy want one of these. Anyone got any Finnish friends?

Just try switching in you imagination for a minute there are lots of perfectly valid reasons for people to need maternity grants.

Yes some people will abuse them, that is the sad truth.

Referring back to the tomahawk missiles, 1 in 7 of them will hit their intended target. Hundreds of thousands of them have been used in Syria in the last 2 years, funny how the government can find the money to help the Syrians protect their oil interest but the nhs and every other public service people pay their taxes for is cut cut cut!

Gah!

Amen to that, Helena!

do most parents really need this sort of thing provided for them? surely, unless you are extremely poor, you can afford to buy some baby clothes etc? it seems to me a terrible waste of money to give this stuff to the majority of parents. And I certainly wouldn't have put clothes provided by the government on any baby of mine.

Louise. Chances are the reason you wouldn't is because of stigma,if one is given to everybody then there is no stigma.

There would still be a stigma - it would end up like sure start centres. Haven't many of them closed for not operating with the intended market and being used by middles class moms instead - the ones who would have benefitted most from the services were suspicious of it/didn't want to feel like they needed it... these boxes would be the same i think.

In Finland society is a lot more level and based on the basic ethos of cooperation and common good, so the government is a lot more "of the people for the people" IYSWIM. Not quite the massively removed, patronising thing it is here, so you wouldn't be resistant to wearing the clothes etc. on that basis. Liking or disliking the designs is a different, personal matter, but in Finland the baby fashion is currently unisex, bright coloured clothes in retro designs, so most people wouldn't mind the box contents. Same clothes are also sold in shops, so they are not some separate "poor" design.

I love the idea of the boxes, and think it is genius that the actual box is a bed. I'd have loved to receive one. I dont give a shit about stigmas.

I can't see how it could be cost effective.

Surely only a small proprotion of the population qualify for maternity/sure start grants? I'm sure the boxes would be much cheaper but, if the government had to do them for 100% of new mothers instead of say 5% then they would be massively more expensive.