to think that all the people who have a problem with people using "girls" instead of "women"

[CartwrightMiss]

Should say "womanfriend" instead of "girlfriend"?

[gron]

I think men always will be superior beacuse
1.some jobs require more brute strength than women can muster. Or muster for longer than men. Yes I know that UK has more desk jobs nowadays, but look further afield than offices, and many jobs need strength. And come to that, men will do dirty jobs. Dustmen, sewer work etc,how many women sign up for that work? Not many.
2.They, men[probably] stay in the workplace longer.
3.women go off for those career breaks called babies, and many never return to quite where they were.
4.Most controversially, it says so in the bible[I think I am right in saying].

I asked the poster for clarification straight away.

She used the phrase 'men are superior' several times and she was not talking about the number of men in employment.

"Male isnt the default[I dont think, not exactly sure of the meaning of that word], male isnt the norm, though there are slightly more of them than us?, but yeah, they sure are the superior."

Ah, well there you go. x-posts. She really does think men are superior.

Our poor daughters.

Ah. Enter God. Exit rational discussion.

Oh, dear. I apologise for supporting Ilike's opinion. I'm the one who misunderstood.

ilike, many jobs do need strength, but there are jobs for which women are stronger than men (men struggle with uterine contractions, and tend to have less endurance, FWIW).

Women will do dirty jobs too. In fact, when you look at jobs like cleaners in hospitals, lots of those are done by women.

There is no inherent reason why women should go on career breaks and men should stay in the workplace, is there?

The Bible is an interesting point, but even there, I think it is rather subjective. The OT is pretty firm, but the NT is not so much. Think of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, or of Mary and Martha, or of Mary the Virgin - if you like these things.

Maybe consider also that it seems likely women's role in the very early Church was greater than subsequently, and it was reduced the further from Jesus' lifetime we go.

'women go off for those career breaks called babies, and many never return to quite where they were.' Well, the workplace culture needs to address this. The economy must be losing shedloads of money due to losing excellent female workers because we cannot or will not properly accommodate people with children.

'4.Most controversially, it says so in the bible[I think I am right in saying].'

to this one, obviously. Unless you also believe that it's right that no one should eat shellfish or wear mixed fibres because that's in the Bible too.

I like
Dirty jobs like
Cleaning toilets
Nursing incontinent people
Looking after animals
Looking after nappy wearing children

You do know that 40% of households in the US have a female as their main income earner?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22715046

There are more women than men, btw. It's approx 52% women.

Physical strength only means superiority in one area (physical strength.)

'Probably stay in the workplace longer' doesn't mean anything at all! It's just an idea you have, right? Not many people 'stay long' in one job, mobility is the norm these days.

Babies impede career progress because of social and business expectations. These can change, and are changing.

The bible says? You think??! Blimey, if you must quote the bible, at least find your quote instead of making up what you think it says.

Not sure what the Marys and Marthas have to do with anything.

Definitely dont agree that women are as strong as men. No way.
Why are there so few miners, full time agricultural workers, fishermen and I could go on and on and on.
Why not, why are women, millions of them not doing those jobs?

garlic, those figures are interesting, thank you.
Rather helps to explain why men are top dpg on so many places, there are millions more of them working full time!!

You did bring up the Bible? The Marys and Marthas have to do with it because Jesus' conduct towards women might be indicative of his attitude towards them.

Women are stronger than men in some ways, less strong in others. As a society we are accustomed to privileging definitions of strength that accord better with what men's bodies do. But we'd all be pretty fucked if we relied on men's uterine muscles to get us born.

You might as well ask, why are relatively few nurses men (still)? It takes strength, that job. Or you could ask, how come there are so few black and asian farmers - are they weaker than white men, or might there be more to it than that?

Ilike

Mining, agriculture and fishing are very much minority industries in the UK. I think you will find that in agrarian economies and mixed economies with a higher reliance on agriculture that a significant number of the workers are female.

Given the service economy nature of the UK it might be more interesting to consider how many women work in call centres, public services, the professions?

Still dont get the Mary and Martha bit.
They did the giving birth,cooking and cleaning for him.

And your post still goes nowhere near explaining why on earth are vritually no women doing the list of jobs.
Yes women might be able to cope with a few hours a day at the list, but not a full day, 5 or 6 days a week.

you should watch male gymnasts trying to complete the female floor routine - they don't have the lower body strength to do it

there's probably something about the way we define and understand strength that makes us believe men are stronger than women - even though we know some women are stronger than most men

"Definitely dont agree that women are as strong as men. No way.
Why are there so few miners, full time agricultural workers, fishermen and I could go on and on and on.
Why not, why are women, millions of them not doing those jobs?"

So that's why practically all managing directors, senior civil servants, senior politicians...etc. are men. Because they are so physically strong! it all becomes clear to me!

By the way- check out the farmers, miners and fisher(men)! in every part of the world but the highly developed bits. You might just get a bit of a surprise.

In agriculture, in poorer countries,yes women can be employed as fruit pickers, olive growers, fruit growers etc etc.
Not on the whole for the rest of it.
Yes, they can drive tractors too.

Really, are posters on here saying women are as strong as men?
Then why cant they play sport against men. Because they lose on the whole,and look silly.
[yes they could probably manage golf, darts etc]

No seeker, partly, actually a lot I would say, because of presenteeism. 86% of them work full time, compared to only 56% of women!

No, ilike, the story of Martha and Mary is the one where Martha is cooking and cleaning, and her sister Mary is chatting to him and doing none of the housework. Martha gets fed up (as who wouldn't), and Jesus points out that what Mary is doing is important too.

It is widely interpreted as an analogy for the active and contemplative lives - so it is Jesus saying that women do not need to be the menial workers, they can be the thinkers, too.

From our point of view, it would be lovely if he'd said to all the men 'gather round and pitch in', but then, he does rustle up a lovely picnic for everyone himself.

Would eant a link to your end bit seeker.
Miners for example,when there are mining accidents abroad, I dont think I have seen a single female.

ilike - but virtually all sports were developed to play to male strengths, weren't they?

It is a bit like asking, 'do you really believe women fit into a tux as well as men?!' and not noticing tuxes were designed for men. It's not the cloth that's at fault, it's the design.

Incidentally, the wanker ex, who is good for very little, is good for one thing - his mother, who is five foot nothing and slight, is perfectly able to work 7 days a week on the farm, and she does. She has to.

even my anti feminist teen gets these points

equestrian sports see men and women, young and old competing against one another

but like I said, see what happens when male gymnasts attempt female routines - there was a series during the Olympics, they were exhausted from the warm up alone and couldn't complete the routine because their lower bodies were not strong enough

it was very interesting, I think it might have been on the Time site but not sure

That is really interesting, mitchy.

It's the same with some of the moves the women are banned from doing that the men do, but somehow we always hear more about that.

I don't know if this is true, but my DH does Judo reasonably well and he reckons the differences between a woman and a man of similar bodyweight would not be very substantial, which is interesting when you think how physical it seems as a sport.

"Fruit pickers" - oh, how sweet :)

Have you never seen pictures of Asian and African women hoeing fields by hand, with babies on their backs? Ever wondered how much those milkmaids' pails weighed, or how strong you have to be to carry 5 gallons of water 3 miles from tap to home? Ever watched a video of women pounding maize, for example, or extracting semolina? How about washerwomen, bashing cloth on stone for hours every day?

An Army training backpack weighs around 20lbs (women soldiers do this training, too, remember) roughly the same as an 18-month-old. Parents do not get sent on special course to learn how to carry a toddler around for hours.

So did my great grannie. LRB, but they are rare you have to agree.

But what is stopping woman playing, professionally a tennis match with men and winning?
What prevents a woman playing a football match with men, and being as good as them.
The answer, we would look silly.

Women, on here and I presume elsewhere, are trying to defend or change something that cannot, or ever will be changed.
Much better to bend a mans ear about certain things, than try and take away or dimish his inherent abilities, that, yes,in some ways are superior to a woman's
What we have as women, is our superior ability in emotional intelligence. Lets use it.

Look, why arent the women on here in historic mens jobs.
I was much surprised to find, when I came on MN, quite how many are teachers, lawyers, office workers, students, etc etc.
MN is overwhelmed with desk workers of one sort or another.