To think we would be silly to turn this move to Australia down?

[wanderingwillow]

Long time lurker, first time poster; i hope it's alright to post here and get some opinions.

DH is a licensed aircraft engineer, I am unlicensed. DH has been contracting for a while, and has been approached a couple of times for work abroad. Most of the time, he's said he wasn't interested and wanted to stay in the UK. The other week, he got a call and was just generally pissed off with life, so he listed to what the job was offering.

It turned out to be rather interesting. The position is in Melbourne for AUD$125,000 a year. They are also recruiting unlicensed positions in the same city for AUD$55,000, which I've had the odd email about, but again never really taken seriously.

I think we could make a go of this. We have a 4yo DS, and I lived in Melbourne (Coburg) for 2.5 years between 1998 and 2001 when I was younger. I loved it, and always wanted to go back.

I think we'd regret not at least trying; we're 25 and 27, no debt, reasonable savings (saving for a deposit) but no mortgage. We've nothing to lose, surely?

Am I being reckless? I've read all the forums I can on the subject, which bemoan the expense of general living, but I can't get a good marker on whether our wage would cause us problems. Every opinion forum I've seen has championed the state education (I remember it being good from personal experience), the lifestyle and the weather.

AIBU and living in a dream land? I think DH thinks I am, but I really think we could do this.

Hi op

I had a look at your outgoings (couldn't see if you had posted your current income) so I hope this helps.

From what I can tell you have a total of £4000 a month at present after food/rent/bills? That is a substantial saving IMO and tbh I don't think you would be able to have that money left over from a $175 000 au income in Melbourne. 175 000 is however not a bad income but if you do not qualify for things that the locals get like childcare (they get 50% childcare costs back including before/after school care) and free state education or 'cheaper' healthcare then you will struggle. You may be interested to know that benefit payments for locals similar to cb and ctc cut out at $150 000 a year.

Are you sure you can't find jobs that pay more anywhere else in Australia? Ime jobs pay more there, although living costs are higher, partly because those in low wages get around $20 an hour compares to £7 an hour which drives up the living costs. I am surprised that the salary there is so low compared to what you are getting here! I would research this some more if I was you.

We get Medicare on our 457. Just been in hospital with a broken leg and had surgery. We have Bupa cover, and that covers things like xrays. Its bloody confusing, and we get told one thing by one person, and something by another. Its as clear as mud basically.
Rents are ridiculously high. We shop in markets for fruit, veg and meat that comes direct from the farm, as the supermarkets are so bloody expensive.
I found Melbourne cheaper than Perth wrt eating out. We hardly ever eat out now. We'd normally go out once a week eating out, and take out another nite. Its lucky if we can afford a take outings a week, and eat in a restaurant once a month if lucky.
Afaik, in Perth you don't pay more for the schools on a temp visa, than as a pr.
If you've got your heart set on it, go for it. If your dh is not keen, don't pressure him. This is what my dh did, and I hate it here, and resent him as he doesnt want to go back.

I live in Melbourne, and I'm a single parent on a teachers salary, so no where near what you would be on, and I have no problems with the cost of living here and feel that I live quite comfortably.

Unless you have any religious objections, private religious schools have much lower fees than the non denominational private schools.

Re school fees, it depends what visa you are on. We have just left Sydney after 3 years, and as my DCs are Australian, public school was free, apart from uniform (very expensive), compulsory fees for additional classes like Japanese / dance, stationary costs etc. Probably worked out about $750 a year per child. But if you are on a 457 visa then you paid about $5000 a year per child. Unless work paid instead.
Food etc can vary hugely, you could manage if you shop around a lot and also cook pretty much everything yourself. I was feeding 5 of us, all meals, packed lunches etc, for about $1300 a month.
Personally we found it incredibly expensive, especially compared to a few years ago. Clothes, shoes, books etc all cost a lot more and are not as good quality. Think about $20 for the latest paperback.
However, a few things aside, it is the most beautiful country, there is so much space and so much to explore. My kids loved it, as did I. But - my husband was on a higher salary and we coped financially but certainly never saved any money. Wouldn't have missed it for the world though!

Oh dear, now I can feel the wanderlust rising - must be time for an adventure - New York looks interesting...

wanderingwillow - I believe it's only NSW and ACT that charge 457 visa holders a fee to attend public school. I'm in Sydney, and I know that here you have to pay $4,500 each year upfront before your children can attend public school, and it's more in ACT. I'm pretty sure you don't have to pay anything over and above Australian residents in Victoria. Had a quick look round to check and found a few sites which seemed to confirm it, including this. You will pay an amount each term for school supplies and certain lessons like pottery and music - mine was $400 for 2 dcs last term.

We live in Sydney, which I think is a bit more expensive than Melbourne, and earn less than $175k and are fine - no huge savings, but we have a nice lifestyle. Housing costs are an issue - we are going to struggle to buy somewhere, but we settled in a very expensive area without really thinking things through, as it was meant to be a temporary 4 year move initally. If we had been thinking about buying in the future, we may have chosen a different suburb to live in.

Medicare has been fine for us, and we were covered by the reciprocal care agreement as 457 visa holders. It could get expensive if you have a long-term medical problem I guess - we have been lucky enough not to have to deal with anything major so far. Private health insurance is prohibitively expensive for non-residents.

For me, the homesickness has been the most difficult thing to adapt to. We really are a long way from anywhere, and I hadn't anticipated how expensive it is to fly anywhere from Oz. I am flying back to the UK on my own this July and the best price I could find was a $2500 return. However, homesickness has not been enough to make us to want to return to the UK. I do have friends where it was the deciding factor.

Search the 'Living Overseas' section here on Mumsnet, as there will be lots of information on Australia there, and I know there have been a few cost of living threads over the last months. I'm sure you'll get the information you need there.

You seem to have everything in favour of going to see what it is like. Personally, I couldn't imagine not trying because it may not work out. You can always come home again if you hate it. You will always wonder what might have been if you don't give it a go.

I was going to suggest the Living overseas forum of MN. There are lots of people in Australia there.
My dh is a former aircraft engineer and has friends who work all over SE Asia, I think if you want to move overseas there would be jobs - you just need to research a bit. Also, wouldn't you be getting hugely discounted flights? So making a trip home wouldn't be so costly for you.
Can you try to get schooling for your son included in your contract?

We moved overseas when dd1 was 5, and although life isn't always easy, I don't regret it.

OP. I would say this - you both have to be fully committed to the move, before you make it. If there is a shadow of a doubt in either your or your DH's mind, it won't work. Enthusiasm gets you through a lot...
Otherwise, I'd say definitely go for it. Though, if you can't face moving that far away, I lived in Hamburg for a while (in my early 20s) and its a FANTASTIC place and not far from the UK, for visits.

I would agree, you should go for it! Yes it is expensive but you will be more than fine on that salary. You do both need to be willing to give it a fair go, emigrating is very stressful and I can't see how you would do it if only one person was keen. Mind you having said that my husband was the keen one, but now I am here I love it. I have lived in Northern Ireland 20 years, London over 10 years, and Cork another ten years before moving to Perth, comparing it here to living in the UK and Ireland I think there is a better lifestyle to be had, certainly lots of sun is better than constant bloody rain for a start, but it is a long way away too from friends and family. Still,l am sitting in the sun listening to the kookaburras (noisy buggers!) feeling so lucky to be here and glad we were brave enough to go for it!

Go for it - we did nearly 2 years ago, and haven't looked back.

We live in Brisbane, and our combined income is $150k (two kids, one in full time daycare, one in school), however we did perfectly fine for 6 months on a salary of $80k before I found work.

Remember that if you're earning in AUD$, that there's no point in using the exchange rate to work out prices. The cost of living/earning rate is about $2 to the pound, rather than 1.5. Lots of people on MN whinge about how ridiculously expensive it is to live in Australia, but the Australians seem to manage just fine, as do we. Unless you can't imagine life without a pool, two Audis, and your DS in private school, then you'll be fine.

Australians whinge about the price of living, whilst driving 4wds, living in big houses and eating red meat most nights.

We don't know we are born.

I am in Australia, so can give you a run down of prices:

Petrol - $1.43 a litre
Milk - $3 for 3 litres
Bread - $4 for a decent bakery loaf
Movie Ticket - $12 - $18 depending on the time of day/release etc
Slab of beer (24), premium brand - $45
Bottle of decent bubbles/wine - $15-20
Manicure or Pedicure - $35

Our outgoings are as follows:

Mortgage - $5200 per month (it's a HUGE mortgage), we could rent the same house for $4800 per month. Average rentals for a 3 bed 1 bath house would be around $650 per week in our area.
Electricity - $1200 per quarter
Gas - $150 per quarter
Water - $300 per quarter
Groceries - $350 per week
Private school fees - for our oldest child = $21k per year, the other two are in public school and will be until they reach Grade 4/5, which is the age when many children in Australia move into the Private system.

Average prices in Brisbane (a little bit cheaper than Melbourne):

Median house price in my area is $750k, this means you'd have to shell out at least $750k for a 3 bed 1 bath house. Our house is valued at $1.4m - 4 bed, 3 bath, pool, double garage, second living area.

Car (standard sedan) - $30k, add another $30 for a European brand. You can get a small run around for $15k.

Childcare is heinously expensive - $100 per day at most centres. You do get up to $7500 per child/per annum back if you are an Australian citizen though.

We moved back to Perth in 2011 after ten years in the UK. Food is more expensive but if you buy fruit and veg at markets and in season it can be very cheap - we get a huge box of fruit, veg and eggs each week for $30. Supermarkets are very expensive.

House prices are hopefully coming down as the economy slows and the value of the AUD drops.

Health is confusing, you get money back from medicare for GPs etc, and once you've spent a certain amount you get 80% back.

Above a certain income you need to have private health insurance, which is about $3000 a year for hospital cover etc. In some ways it feels like a lot but you pay national insurance in the UK anyway, so really it ends up much the same, and because you're paying you do get more time with doctors at appointment etc. The doctors aren't any better but it's good to just pay and get an appointment when you want it, for example.

I think Melbourne is a really beautiful city. You could come for a few years and go home again, too. We manage to save a bit and the AUD is strong at the moment so overseas holidays are good value.

Also while clothes, books etc are very expensive you can still shop at all the UK shops and bookdepository.com. I do a lot of shopping online - e.g. buying children's clothes on sale at the end of the season in the UK and having them shipped here is cheaper than buying the in the shops here. So there are ways around the cost of living.

Oh fudge, the bloody website ate my answer.

Long story short, we live in a 3 bed 1 bath house valued at $380k (in a lovely area I might add, hardly a rough area), pay $420 a week rent. We also spend less than $200 a week on groceries, $350 a quarter on electricity and $50 a quarter on water.

Also, Australia is a happy place :)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22685260

OP, my sis did something similar last year. She upped sticks and moved her young family to Oz. Like you they had savings and her husband was offered three times his uk salary (about 250k AUD). However, they have found they are no better off than they were in UK due to the extortionate cost of living. They rent a house in a nice area which is much smaller than they imagined they would have, and will also struggle to get a mortgage for a decent sized property in as nice an area.

That said, they are enjoying life out there, have lots more quality family time and have made friends easily. The state school system is seemingly very good, but depending on your visa, it is very likely as an expat you will have to pay around 4k a year towards the schooling.

It sounds like you are doing all the right research and if it is not a 'forever' move, possibly worth the experience. Just don't underestimate the cost of living. I have been out to visit and I still can't get over it! Maybe go online with your next weekly shopping receipt and compare it to an Aussie supermarket shop...and it goes for everything (except petrol, that's cheaper).

Also you don't need private health insurance above a certain income, but there is a levy that you can avoid paying if you have private health insurance and you earn >$160k. The levy is still less than the average health care costs for a family of four.

Also, I'd like to add that Australia doesn't have a medical insurance system, it's a rebate system, so whether you use a company like Bupa or Medibank, or statutory Medicare, you'll always be a bit out of pocket.

I would say go for it but think again exactly where as I think there are much nicer places to live in Australia than Melbourne - I realise you have lived there before though but after living there for 4 years, I found suburb life so depressing. The weather, on the whole, is not good, very rainy and four seasons in a day. It takes ages to get to the coast if you live the other side and it is a busy place.

If your DH has doubts, then I would be careful because you both should feel really enthusiastic about Melbourne as it is expensive and personally I wouldn't want to live right out in the suburbs.

Perhaps research other countries too, we've done the ME and loved it much more than Melbourne, great outdoor life for DCs, good schools, near Asia for holidays, cheaper to fly back to UK, plus you will save enough money for a house deposit. Other expats so friendly too.

When did your ds turn 4? If it was this year in Victoria most of his age group won't start school until January 2015. Something to be aware of.

Homesickness is one risk but the other is not wanting to go home. I couldn't live in the UK again. When I read the threads on here where there is a slating of anyone who has lots of money, a big car etc are demonised I know I could never live amongst such bitter predjudice again.

That didn't really make sense but I have sun oil in my eyes and can't see for the hot bright sun reflecting off the sea

Thankyou so much for all these great answers. I have a lot to think about.

DH would obviously get work first; would I be able to search for work once out there? Would the Visa allow this if we were to enter on a 457 TR Visa?

I've done some costing of the funds we'll need to go with if we were to go; does this seem about right? I think I'd leave £35,000 in the bank to use as a deposit, whether we end up buying in Australia or if we come back to the UK and start again; this would seem sensible. Over and above this, we'd need (in AUD$)
15k for a car in the short term
10k for school fees (if applicable) and uniform
3k for bond on flat initially
1k for estate agents fees (not sure if they exist, but cannot find any sources to confirm them)
2k on new phones
3k for a year's healthcare (mentioned upthread)
1k on initial pantry items/cleaning gear/any initial shopping woes
10k to furnish flat if needs be (there are furnished options available, but worse case scenario and all that. Plus if we do end up staying, we'll need funds to furnish regardless.)
5k on car insurance, annual rail ticket (if needed), life insurance, any extra inoculations for DS, road tax, unforeseen extras.
So far, that totals $45k extra. (Or £28k)

Does that seem like reasonable planning?

I know some if these things may or may not happen, but I'd rather have money spare, and cut back now in order to make this saving.

Someone mentioned we earn a lot here; we do, but it is contract/locus work as a ltd company; which can be stressful.

dopeysheep we went to Melbourne in July 2011 (it was their winter) and it was grey and miserable. The sky was the same leaden grey we get here. We went along the Great Ocean Road and it was so cold we had to buy gloves and scarves (and we had gone prepared we thought, with plenty of layers). Don't be fooled. The sun does not shine all the time in the whole of Australia. We then flew up to Queensland where they were having the wettest July for 60 years!
We found it a lot more expensive in Australia in 2011 than on previous visits too. I don't think that has changed.

I don't know much about living in Australia but some of your figures don't stack up.

Your current monthly income is about £8k which equates to £160k between you before tax (I realise if this is through a company it may be lower).

You said your partner had been offered $125k AUS and you might get $55k AUS which, if you use $1.5 AUS to the pound is £120k so it's a 25% pay cut to live in a hugely expensive country.

Also, you quoted the $125/55k AUS as your income but then said a 500-650k AUS house would be 5 to 6 times your joint income, implying your joint income would only be $100k AUS.

You probably need to take some proper financial advice on this as it doesn't seem that financially it is a great move but obviously it's not just about money.