Delicate, this one.....struggling with understanding how any parent (male or female) lets go of their child

[Punkatheart]

I do not want to bring up any pain or make ANY judgements on anyone - male or female, who may have done this for any reason. But because of my personal situation, I need to understand.

Short background - ex left 2011 and my little girl (then 14) was enormously stressed - to the point of serious physical symptoms...passing out etc. Enough to be recommended for her to have a heart scan. Serious stuff. I was very ill too at the time, with pre-existing lymphoma. Bad time. But ex was appalling - a previously fantastic father with enormous ties to his daughter, just seemed to let go of her and did not want to know any of her subsequent problems.

He has not got better and my daughter made a very harsh decision not now to spend time with him. She is suffering some anxiety and depression and it has been suggested that she may have some post-traumatic stress syndrome - which seems odd (usually connected with war etc) but would fit. Of course, I would love her to have some sort of relationship with her father and as such, I have seen and spoken to him several times - told him to call up once a week to check on his daughter, to make her feel loved. Maybe then she will eventually thaw, although she is adamant that she wants nothing to do with him.

I have begged him to call - become quite upset because my daughter is really struggling with her depression. But he won't. In the last conversation, he was truly unpleasant. He gives money when asked, but will not respond on any emotional level. She had whooping cough for three weeks and he wouldn't even respond when told.

Why wouldn't a parent check on their child? I know you can care from a distance, but surely you would want to know? He even missed her 16th birthday. All I hear from him is that 'Oh well she doesn't want anything to do with me - what am I expected to do?'

To call. Once a week. To help a girl who has currently has a few mental health issues - including an eating disorder and terror at being abandoned.

So please - please talk me through the psychology of this, so that I can try and understand.

You sound like a fantastic mum. PTSD absolutely doesn't have to be just in war situations & it can be hell. I your daughter getting any professional help? Through a counsellor I did a version of EMDR therapy-it completely changed my life. Might be worth looking into? All the very best to you both.

One of my friends is going through something similar. Her Dd is in very poor health (mental and physical) and my friend has been so incredibly worried for her.

Her ex left suddenly and soon after that moved abroad with the ow. He could not see how this might make his dd feel abandoned!! Anyway, 3 years on he has started to make some effort to rebuild their relationship but obviously it's not been easy as her trust was utterly destroyed.

I feel very sad for your Dd and for you too, it must be heartbreaking seeing your Dd like this. Thankfully she has an amazing mum.

I too had a father who disengaged. Sometimes he'd remember us, sometimes not and it was incredibly painful. Eventually I just blocked all (intermittent) contact, because not waiting for a birthday present, for example, was better than not getting one.

I think a lot of men can compartmentalise their lives in a way a lot of women, particularly mothers, can't.

I just wanted to add a thought. As girls at this age are often increasingly finding out who they are in relation to men, the father being a prime figure, perhaps speak to her counsellor about things you could do to build her self-confidence in a way that it doesn't become dependent on being wanted by a man. I say this from previous experience, but can't offer any ideas on how!

I don't really understand it, and given that it's mainly men that do it, it is very much a sticking point for me in the "all men can be as committed parents as all women" argument. I actually think that women are better parents generally.

Cherrie - please send my love to your friend - I know exactly what she is going through.

We are on the list to get counselling but she backs out of doing that at times. I am worried how it will affect her relationships in the future - I just find myself full of worries for her and that kind of takes over.

I do find myself curious as to what he tells other people about his situation. Why can't these people - all of the people you mentioned too - not see the incredible loss in their lives? Emotionally - they must be incredibly stupid....

I really don't understand it, OP.

I also can't understand how other women then form relationships with these men knowing how they have behaved towards their DC.

A family member of mine has married a man knowing he has a son he hasn't seen for ten years! He blames the mother (of course), but deep down she must know he just isn't bothered!

It seems to be something a lot of men love to do - and find ways to blame the mother. Mine hasn't seen DC in years, doesn't pay maintenance, never returned any of our belongings, and blames me for lack of contact due to his insisting on putting DC in the middle with suggestions of trips abroad (he lives in America) without consulting me and going through the court process.

Contact is now patchy through email - DC doesn't really care a lot of the time. \I've had the threats of how DC will know what a bitch I am - I'm really not bothered anymore.

Any father who treats their children like a possession and has contact when it suits - often to make them look like the perfect parent - isn't worth worrying over.

You can only do so much. And abuse from them is a perfectly valid reason to go no contact.

And it always amazes me how, despite the DC's mother being horrendous in every way...these men leave their DC to live with them!!!!

Funny that.

In my experience they play the victim - my ex has got the ow accusing me of all sorts, and it is all my fault that my daughter doesn't see her father. The ow doesn't want him to see his daughter so she is fuelling his fire too. My daughter has given up on him and to protect herself from more hurt refuses to contact him. I think these men re-write history and blame everyone else but themselves. His latest excuse I heard was he didn't get in touch as she 'didn't want to see him' - all about him and his happiness, no concern for anybody else.

I agree with Word, if I met a man who didn't see his child I would run for the flipping hills. A whole bunting of red flags isn't it.

I don't think it is a man/woman thing in terms of biology. I think we are socialised to behave in these different ways.

I think it's firstly having a very self centred worldview. They think in terms of how things affect them, rather than how things affect their children. So they don't think about how much their DC must miss them, they think in terms of how much they miss their DC. And when this is especially painful, they retreat into their non-DC life to try and block it out. They compartmentalise. My father definitely did this. It was very clear to me that his new wife and new DC were his "family" and it was difficult for him to slot me and DSis into that, so we became "my children from a previous life".

Secondly, and linked to the first, is that they see the DC as the mother's responsibility so don't see the harm in not being around much because "at least they have their mother" and "I'm not important anyway" (which is of course not true).

Then lastly is a sense of entitlement which makes them throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get the relationship with their DC exactly how they want it - ie, living with them, with a wife/mother to do all of the drudge and the shitwork and they can pop in at the weekends for a play or to impart some "manly wisdom" to their children and hence feel like they are an involved parent. Having to see them at set times (rather than whenever) and having to do all of the caring stuff like feed them, wash their bedding, tidy up after them and make sure they brush their teeth, and make an effort to ask about their life etc rather than have it imparted is too much like hard work for some men who expect "children" to be perfect things handed to him on a plate. And so they disengage because it's easy and blame it on the fact it's too hard for them to establish a relationship which isn't perfect all of the time.

Then there are the abusive shits who are so self centred and see everyone as pawns or women/children as possessions and they literally are hurting the children (by not being around, or being flakey) in order to get to the mother and hurt her, because they know that she has already stood up for herself and the children can't, so they are an easy way to get to her and punish her.

Self-centred worldview and entitlement are socialised. Seeing children and drudgework as a woman's responsibility is socialised.

Sometimes childcare is boring, often children go through stages of being exasperating, or hurtful, or just not very good company. As a parent who has full care of the child, you don't have the option to walk away. It doesn't matter how hard it gets, it just isn't an option any more than leaving them in the gutter to fend for themselves, because you are so aware constantly, unconsciously, that they are so dependent on you and that to lose you would shatter their world. I expect if you feel disconnected from this, either because you see yourself as "parent 2" and the mother of your children as the "main" parent or because you've been literally separated from them by a relationship breakdown, then the child/ren feel less dependent on you and it can feel less important that you stick around to make an effort in their life.

And then I think it becomes all about him and how it's so painful and hard to see the children but not live with them. Which I can empathise with and see must be incredibly difficult to cope with, but IMO it's not a reason to give up on your children. There is a grieving process about the loss of your old life or about how the relationship is going to play out as opposed to what you had planned/expected but once you come through that you can start to accept that it will be different, but that doesn't mean it is terrible. And many men do of course. It's just for some they take the easy route of blocking it all out and running away rather than trying to come to terms with it and just dealing with the situation they actually have.

Yoni, I think that is very perceptive.
So much self pity from men who have left their kids. Occasionally i meet them in my sporadic forays into dating, and the ex is always to blame that they hardly see their kids. There is always a lot if martyrdom about the time they do spend with the child, how much they do for their child. An aquaintence of mine, who is not one of the worst by any stretch, was complaining to me how he had had to do his dcs nit treatment over the weekend.
I said " and?" he clearly thought dcs mum should be responsible for all the yukky stuff.
I dated one guy who had dc and was an ace dad, and he said to me that if men on dating sites go on about how much they love their kids, run like the wind, because they will be the same men that hate their exes and see their children once a year. He was spot on. Loving your kids should be a given, not something you brag about on Dating sites to make you look sensitive.

That's a brilliant post, Yoni. It makes such a lot of sense to me.

It is indeed, Yoni. Oh yes, my ex had a profile on match.com that said how much he loved his daughter. Made me see red. So if you see a man with a French name who is in the film industry, while Internet dating - run, ladies.

Yes, it would turn me off a man too. Him having children would be lovely - but the no contact thing would make me very wary.

I could never let go off my daughter and trust me - we have had some crisises - me with health and her with mental health, that had made me feel very desperate and as if I cannot be a mother to her. But I am hanging on - because she needs me. And she's bloody gorgeous!

Or even 'of' my daughter. Doh!

No I don't understand either. Only explanations I can come up with is MH issues, commitment issues, fear (if leaving during pregnancy or early years), inability to cope or they're just a selfish wanker and want their life all to themselves...

My ex from my mid-teen years who broke my heart but lets not go there has just done this to his now ex. They're mid twenties, were together for three years and she unexpecdetly fell pregnant. He told her to abort or he was off. Well they were in a serious relationship, mid 20s so not 15 yo and had good jobs- she wasn't going to do that so he pissed off.. and got with his best friend as soon as he left! Now his new gf is giving the ex grief which is the last thing she needs and is all 'my man is perfect, me and him against the world'... What planet is she living on?! How can she be with him knowing he's dumped his pregnant ex and refuses to be a father to their baby?! Just insane...

I'm v.sorry for your DD and you. It must be so heart wrenching to see her like this and I can't imagine how angry he makes you! I wish someone had the answers, I really do just think some people are twats.

Punk

Just keep on doing what you're doing. Make sure he has the relevant contact information and support your daughter as you already are doing. That's all you can do.

You're a good mum.

OP, I don't have first-hand experience of your situation but I've seen it in others close to me.

In both cases it's the man who has left (although in the case of my DSis, it was her who had the affair so her H left).

My ex-BIL has met and got engaged to a woman (who by all accounts isn't very nice - but then I have been given the biased view, I've never met her) and she has 3 sons. Ex-BIL has taken them on as his own and now has no time for my DNiece who was only 3 when he left. Luckily his DMum adores DNIece and she stays with her 2-3 nights a week (DSis works 50 hours a week while being a Single-Mum). DNiece is now 8 and is doing Ok, although the cracks are starting to show .

The other is my BF. Her DH had an affair and left her over 18 months ago. He moved in with the OW and her two DDs and used to take his DD to stay with them every other weekend and for a night in the week. Over the last 12 months he has split up with OW and met someone else who has no DC. He barely sees his DD now, forgot her birthday in November and when he did get around to dropping a card off, he'd put 'From (his-name) and (GF name)' instead of from Dad and (GF name)!!! . BF and her DD were both devestated.

Both of these men had previously been devoted Fathers to their DDs, who were the apples of their eyes. I'm always astounded and dismayed by the change that happens over time. Incredibly sad.

Because, on an intellectual and philosophical basis, your ex never understood that your responsibilities as a parent continue even if your child is angry at you.

If my best friend does something unforgivable, I am entitled to never speak to her again. If my child does the exact same thing, I am not entitled to cut off contact in response. The rights and wrongs get greyer when it's an adult descendant, but when it's an actual child child who's refusing to speak to you or who has hurt your ickle feelings, it's black and white. You're a parent, act like it. You are supposed to always be there.

It's normally the dad... this is because the abandoning parent identifies the child with their ex spouse. They want to have custody during the first stages of splitting up, just to spite their ex, but when things settle down, they are gone like the wind, because they don't care about the ex any more. Of course, not that I agree with that, but this seems to be the 'scientific' explanation I have come across.