to think we should not have to tone down our frendship to suit these colleagues

[whysogrumpy]

Where I work 7 of us spend part of the day in a small office all together. One of these people is our head of department, another her second and I have a less senior management role.

Our HoD has always had poor management skills and tends to undermine people and put them down. she has a poof effect on staff morale as she does not show good leadership and micromanages people (or tries to) and stifles creativity - a big part of the job. She is also poor at the other aspects of her role and this has been picked up on by her bosses. Despite this we have, in the past, got on well, as I really don't think she does what she does out of malice. She just struggles with her job.

Sorry to be blunt, but her second is a lazy, arrogant twat and most things he should do, I do, despite the fact that he is on a lot more money than me. This is another example of her poor leadership.

We generally all get on (notwithstanding the issues above!) and I get on particularly well with one of the other women and, this year, a new member of staff has joined and the three of us have a lot in common and get on well. I suppose this has changed the dynamics of the group a little and the second, who has always been fairly loud and thinks he's funny, has been a lot quieter this year. I should add that ours has always been a fairly sweary office - our job is a stressful one and we go in the office to let off steam. Everyone has joined in with this.

Another relevant point is that the Hod's undermining behaviour has got so bad thos year that the three of us have made a complaint about her to her bosses. This was done confidentially and he has spoken to her in a a fairly low-key and supportive way about this and has not told that we, or anyone, has complained.

Last night, the hod got me alone and told me that toaday she intends to send an email to me and the other two women mentioned above about our swearing in the office. she says she has had several complaints about it, which is untrue as there are not several people there and those that are would not complain and all join in with swearing at one time or another. She also said she felt the department had become divided by age! Never have we done anything to exclude others and, when she is in a good mood she joins in with us and all is fine. Seond has, imo, had his ego dented because he is no longer centre of the room.

AIBU to think we are being penalised for being young and friends. I'm not sure what to do but feel a huge row is brewing.

If you don't like the office lunchtime rules, don't stay in the office at lunchtime

"I really don't want to reveal the job we are in as I think it will make the thread go off on a tangent"

or it will make OP look even more unprofessional!

How are you being penalised? You are being asked to tone down the swearing, which is a perfectly reasonable request.

They are canvassers, I bet.

The come back to the "office" at lunchtime and they let of steam like "Friggin numpties dont care about our sheep for sausages appeal"

or "I got 50 nimwits signed up for Radiators to help poor freezing Norsemen, Yah! Buckaroo!" etc

workers at a soft play area?

I have worked in a place where it has been split by age and it is a really horrible environment to work in.

Ever since that experience i have made a concious effect to make sure everyone mixes and joins in because i hate divided workplaces - what seems funny and a good time to one half is very annoying to the other half.

Westiemamma I realise it does sound a little sinister when you quote it like that but I am just trying to be brief while on here. But, since you mention it, no, I don't really accept being subordinate to her as she is frankly incompetent. Since I have worked there (8 years) it has been well known across the organisation. I know it makes me sound 'up my own arse', as someone so kindly put it, but I do resent the fact that these two are being paid more than me. When they are also rude, it just makes it even worse. And I do believe my boss will swear because she is always doing it! In fact, she swore just before having the word with me last night!

Quintessential I think you have misundrestood. We are not paid when we are on lunch, which is the main time we are in the office.

I can't go out at lunchtime as we only get 35 minutes and there is nowhere near enough to go. Also, I don't usually take the full amount of time.

Are you a teacher OP? "Office" is subject department office?

I think swearing in the office is totally unacceptable and unprofessional. You seem to have little respect for your boss and her deputy. I think you sound like any Manager's nightmare.

Why have you continued to work for 8 years for a boss who's competence you question; while picking up the slack for her deputy who is apparently incompetent too? Why not go somewhere else where your undoubted talents will be recognised?

You might even find a company that allows you to swear with gay abandon while you run the place work there.

Superiority complex, much?

I have a lot of loyalty to the organisation itself and do not have to spend a lot of time in the day with my boss. Her second has only been there three years and, I will add to the general consensus on here that I am being arrogant by saying that, when I recently told the head of the organisation that I was thinking of leaving, he offered me more money to stay. So, yes, I am confident in saying that I am well-regarded. Tbh, I don't think she liked the fact this pay rise was behind her back and presented as a fait accompli without any input from her. In addition, I think her second may know and also feels threatened by this. I just feel it's spite.

It may well be spite, but it doesn't alter the fact that she is your boss.

And you have been plenty spiteful towards her in a few of your posts.

So you were there 5 years but instead of promoting you, they brought someone more senior in, pay him more and you feel you have been doing his job for the last 3 years? And stayed when you got a slight pay raise by going above your manager's head? Do you not see how you are coming across? If you can come across like this in your writing to strangers, how disrespectful are you to your manager in real life?

Cosmosim When the promotion came up 5 years ago, I decided not to apply as I was about to go on maternity leave. It just came up at the wrong time for me. They couldn't promote me without my applying for it, so your assumption is way off there. Yes, since I came back I have picked up more and more slack from him.

I have no idea why you are assuming that the pay rise I got three weeks ago, not three years ago, is 'slight'. I gave no indication of how much it was worth. I did not go above my manager's head to get it. It is protocol where I work to go to the overall head of the organisation if you are thinking of leaving. That was what I did, never believing for a second he would do what he did. If I had asked for a rise I would not have got one, so don't start reading between the lines and saying I have pushed myself above her like that, because I haven't. In fact, the head of the organisation complemented me on my professionalism.

Oh, I see what you mean. I didn't just say i was thinking of leaving to see what he would say. A particular job had come up in my field and I told him I was going to apply, as per protocol. Sorry for the misunderstanding - I see now how it looked the way I originally put it.

You are coming across as very schoolgirlish OP. Also, cliqueiness in work can be very annoying and get people's backs up. You can have particular friends in work without making other people feel excluded. There's a bunch of people where I work who are a bit younger than the rest of us and tend to stick together all the time, go for breaks and lunch at separate times from everyone else etc and it looks very immature and gets on other people's nerves a bit.

You may have loyalty to the organisation, but it sounds as though you have no respect for your immediate superiors.

No, well, respect has to be earned doesn't it?

Err no, in order to demand respect we must first learn to show respect.

Sorry, but in the nicest possible way, you three sound very annoying.

1 - just stop swearing, that is a perfectly reasonable request, it is very likely some people who would not say so your face find it a bit much
2 - your friendship is for outside work time. Take it to the pub. Good for you that you have found good friends through work but your friendship is for outside work; within work you have a pleasant professional relationship, as you should with everyone.

1. this is nothing to do with the shortcomings of people senior to you. This is about your behaviour and has been completely professionally communicated to you, by people who have the right and, in fact, duty, to do so.
2. One of the MOST ANNOYING THINGS IN THE WORLD is junior members of staff who REFUSE to believe you, and argue with you, when you tell them that certain things they are doing are not ok at work. "Yebbut," they say, "Iknowbut..." and they basically tell you "It is ok because I want to do it and I feel like it and all my friends are like this". You just want to say: You don't know everything, I know you don't know everything, how could you goddammit, but I am 20 years older than you and I do know a bit more and I AM TELLING YOU THIS BECAUSE I AM RIGHT AND I WANT TO HELP YOU AND THIS IS INFORMATION TO YOUR ADVANTAGE.

OP, if you carry on at work like you are you will just look like a dick and it won't do you any favours.

OP, if you carry on at work like you are you will just look like a dick and it won't do you any favours.

Like it has one here, frankly.

I bet you're teachers - why not go somewhere else (someone's room?) at lunchtime? Different departments and staff rooms have different atmospheres - I avoid my dept office as it is too strait-laced for me but in one staffroom it's very much 'anything goes' and a real letting-off-steam place. People who prefer a quieter vibe go to one of the other staff rooms, but I wouldn't go in there and swear. (In my experience school offices and staff rooms are quite sweary; it comes from bottling it up and being polite to children all day! We have a fair bit of swearing even in dept meetings, although we are all v professional in public!)

The smart thing to do would be buy a nice jolly swear box and make everyone put a coin in when they swear. Try and rebuild some sense of community?

I have sympathy re incompetent superiors, I work in an organisation that frequently rewards the lazy, stupid and unpleasant, but you are coming across as a bit of a nob I'm afraid.

Right, so if someone is your superior you have to put up how they are, regardless of how incompetent they are. The atmosphere in the office, in terms of how sweary and loud it is, is exactly the same now as it ever has been. This is why it is so annoying - we are being told off due to jealousy, basically.

Why are people making assumptions about my age? I am younger than the 2 seniors and older than my two friends.

I'm a knob. Ok. The head of the organisation clearly doesn't think so, does he? But let's all overlook the fact I was given a pay rise not to leave. That counts for nothing does it?