To think that just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I hate feminism?

[TinkerSailerSoldierSpy]

Friend and I were having a discussion, I'm 18 weeks pregnant, and it was a bit of an inconvenient surprise, considering I've started a new job just 2 months ago.I mentioned that it wasn't going to look good, me taking maternity leave after not even being there for a year, and she suggested perhaps considering there was no dad on the scene and my new job, I should terminate. I felt a bit uncomfortable but told her that I could never do that as I'm pro life and view it as killing a child. She then proceeded to stare at me like I had an extra head and ask me why in a shocked voice. I explained my reasons and views and we got into an arguement about it, the usual stuff, what about in cases of rape and if the woman's not financially able to support the child, to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle? And she stormed out the house shouting that I was misogynistic and women have the right to their own bodies. Let me be clear, I certainly would never stop anyone from making their decision about an abortion, I just can't seem to get over the idea of it, it repulses me. But I wouldn't judge a woman who got one. I understand the other viewpoint but I can't agree with it myself, and in all other respects I would say i was very liberal about womans rights. When I mentioned it to other friend she said it was my views but they were quite outdated and misogynistic. Are they? I need advice, should I apologize to friend A?

so even if it is killing it's still safe, legal and needed - so it doesn't change anything!

its the person having the abortion whose opinion is the only one that matters .why should they give a stuff what anyone else thinks , their body their choice at the end of the day .

I actually dislike the term 'choice' when it comes to abortion - it's not a choice it's a NEED - women don't 'choose' abortion glibly like choosing shoes - the have terminations because they NEED to

some people need , some choose , up to them :)

well of course it's up to them!

although I doubt very much women have terminations if they don't need to! :)

How do you define "need"? For example; Do I need chocolate or do I want chocolate?

Do I need to have an abortion or would my life be better if I had one?

I'm not exactly loving the idea that we might take young women who have had a termination and who do not feel crippled by guilt and emotional turmoil, and 'educate' them into feeling that way.

Killing is exactly what you're doing when you terminate a pregnancy.

You also "kill" something with no functioning brain, nervous system or consciousness when you uproot a plant. A ball of cells isn't a human being.

When does a ball of cells become a human being?

When does a ball of cells become a human being?

Look at it the other way around. If someone at the end of their life becomes "brain dead" then they are considered to have died.

In exactly the same way, when a foetus develops, they're not yet a person before their brain exists and begins to function.

At what point does the brain exist and function?

What you define as 'exist' and 'function'?

I don't think it's helpful to reduce the abortion argument to 'it doesn't matter, it's a bunch of cells'. It's not really though, is it? Maybe in the first few days/weeks, but at 12/16/24 weeks it is a foetus.

A foetus has a brain, it has brain function. I am still 100% pro-choice though.

I completely agree cloverer

And anyway it depends what kind of answer you are looking for. Neurological? Theological? Legal? Philosophically Socratic?

They are all human-made answers in the end, that vary across the globe and through time.

It always comes back to bodily autonomy.

BlessedDespair, you say women choose to have sex and pregnancy is a consequence.

WRONG

Women do not always 'choose' to have sex, rape, women with mental health issues, marital rape, sex workers women trapped in abusive relationships women with learning disabilities. Do they 'choose'?

Where will you draw your line if you make abortions illegal???

I wish people would use a little thought before jumping on the opinion bandwagon.

Good point linerunner.

Do I have to support the choice to terminate at term if I'm to be allowed to call myself a feminist?

The rest of it I can do. Not third trimester though.

It is interesting that in the Ariel kidnap case in America there is talk of the death penalty for murder because he apparently caused his captives to miscarry.This is in a state where abortion is legal! Either it is ok to kill a foetus or it isn't-it will be an interesting legal case I think.

Framey my personal line would be at 18 weeks if there were a bloody good reason and never ever after 22 weeks but you don't have to sgree,in fact I know most of you don't.I want any woman who wishes to keep her baby to have the choice to do so in comfort and with support.

Loveit, it's not a particularly feminist to stance to put criteria on when women have autonomy over their bodies. Either they do or they don't.

The logical end consequence of that is that termination at any stage has to be allowed. I am entirely uncomfortable with late term terminations but do believe that they should be legal in any circumstance. I do however think that termination of a viable foetus should be done in a way that allows for the removal from a woman's body in a manner that preserves life if possible.

I do however think that termination of a viable foetus should be done in a way that allows for the removal from a woman's body in a manner that preserves life if possible

Interesting. A live termination.

I agree with Blistory that there is no logic in putting a gestation limit on abortion - it will always be arbitrary.

Legally, you can abort in the third trimester already, for foetal abnormality, and risk to the mother (both physical and mental).

If the law was simplified to allow for abortion on demand throughout pregnancy, I very much doubt it would change the number of third trimester abortions. How many women would choose to put themselves through giving birth to a dead foetus if it wasn't something they desperately needed to do, for the foetus' health or their own?

I feel the only feminist position is as early as possible, as late as necessary. All women should be able to access safe, legal abortions as quickly as possible without having to wait weeks. However, if a woman needs to abort at 24+ weeks, then yes she absolutely should have that right.

There should be a distinction between what your personal emotions to abortion are and your rational, 'bigger picture' understanding. I personally could never have an abortion and the idea of it revulses me at a primal level. HOWEVER, I would 100% support anyone wanting an abortion, for whatever reason. Pregnant women are alive, with hopes, dreams and the ability to feel fear, danger and they need to have control over their own bodies. Foetuses, especially at ages that the vast majority of abortions occur at, are little more than parasites, with no independent thought or self awareness. Foetuses have the potential to become a fully formed baby, but the reality is they are not viable under 23 weeks.
My ovaries are full of potential babies that will never be alive, and 70% of fertilised eggs are aborted naturally. Abortion is a natural process.

Women are alive and our focus should be entirely on them and their choices.