To think instead of paying for DD's schooling we could give her 250K cash for her 18th birthday?

[LondonMan]

DD is about to turn 3. I have looked at on-line info for local state schools and don't like what I see. For three of the nearest primary schools where I've managed to locate statistics, two have over 90% of children with English as an additional language, and one over 80%. The schools all have bottom or (rarely) second-from-bottom quintile performance in all subjects, in Ofsted reports. All local state schools are likely to be similar, because they are teaching the same demographic, children of local social-housing tenants, mostly Bangladeshi. (From long experience living in the area, virtually all non-social-housing parents leave the area once they have children.)

We don't want to move because we are near DW's job.

DW is hoping to get DD into the 14th nearest state school (which is only 0.7miles away) using their religious criteria. That school has excellent Ofsted results, "only" two-thirds of pupils have English as an additional language, though apparently one third arrive speaking no English at all.

There is also a just-opened foundation secondary which might be an OK option later.

I suspect we won't get into the good state primary school and will end up private all the way, which we can afford. There is a top girl's school nearby, and the fees are actually slightly less than the 15K a year we spend on nursery care at the moment.

I've calculated that if we don't send DD to private schools for 13 years, and invest the money instead, with average luck (5% return) we'd be able to give her about £250K cash instead.

The title question is mostly rhetorical. I expect that DD will not end up in the sub-par schools, whatever we decide. I'm just a bit bemused by the situation and thought I'd give you all something to comment on.

I think it's entirely reasonable to worry that your dd's education may be affected if the local schools are crap (or 'very poorly performing' and her reception year is full of children who don't speak English.

Another issue - depends on your wife, I guess, but I gather from friends that it can be tricky for kids to build friendships if they don't fit into the majority culture at that school. Bangladeshi families apparently aren't generally keen to invite non-Bangladeshi kids round to play. This is anecdote, of course, and it may be that those parents have other reason for not inviting the kid who isn't Bangladeshi round to play...

draft, missing bracket. Thank heavens it's not a pedant thread!

Like, totally, OP am not being sarcastic by the way. I couldn't read past your title by the way, just too boring calculations!!! But I think you're right.

I think its fair enough to wonder how the hell we are in a situation where areas are practically "ghettoised" because of primary schools deemed to be poorly performing.

No child, whether it is your daughter or another, should have to receive an education which is seen to be substandard. I too agree that this is a shocking state of affairs and it really troubles me.

Erm, if the OP is genuinely concerned that local primary schools have a very high intake of pupils whose first language isn't English, and then goes on to state that:

"I live in a devlopement of 300 flat, until recently there's been barely a single child in the whole development. It's all City workers who move away when time comes to procreate"

Isn't the supposed inadequacy precisely due to his neighbours and (I'm guessing) colleagues and associates all moving away. Why are you moaning about a problem you'd rather perpetuate than try to fix?

If you really see English as a second language as such a terrible thing, that is. I know a lot of people with advanced, postgraduate degrees from world leading institutions who didn't have any English till they were eight or nine. Try telling them their academic credentials aren't up to scratch.

Unami, what do you expect the OP to do, buy the whole block of flats and insist apartments can only be let to families who will send their children to local schools? Other people's decisions are out of his hands.

wow!

here, take my brew and my biscuits

He's one of those people, edam. He's annoyed that his local schools don't have a higher intake of kids with English as a first language because of people like him deciding to move elsewhere.

He can choose to be part of the solution, or he can perpetuate the supposed problem. But if he chooses to perpetuate it, he's got little right to complain.

there are many places in London which would fulfill your criteria

exp as you are going to retire and be sahd - so you can take your daughter to school etc

if you use search on mumsnet there were dozens similar discussions about places with good schooling

you have to tell people the name of the station your DW must be one hour after getting out of the door

and how lively you would like it to be :)

Yanbu. I would be gutted with the schools you have mentioned. I would move house if I was you. Aim for a decent area with decent school and bank the cash to get dd on the property ladder later.

In current situation not just good but excellent education can be worth more than 250 000 over your DD's lifetime. It makes sense to choose a school with the best fit for your daughter (so really poncy traditional private schools as well as state schools with poor aspirations are out). When I talked about "turning around" of poor schools with teachers that work in state, private schools and do supply teaching, all of them said that the culture of a school pervades all areas and is virtually impossible to change. It's much easier to start a new school. It really surprised me but then I haven't been through UK education system myself.

Halifax child isa gives 6% if you have an account with them too.

As to the location try Herne Hill corner which is close to North Dulwich station because it's in catchment for outstanding Dulwich Infants, Duwlich Hamlet (primary) and Charter (secondary). A bit awkward to get to Canary Wharf but I think it will be within an hour. Also very green.

..Not sure if this thread is sarcastic or not
Ofstead isn't everything. If your child works as hard as she can, she can get good grades wherever she ends up going to school.

What difference does it make to your child if the kids turn up with no English? The school wont change their teaching plan because of this, they have a curriculum to follow.. The children will most likely get extra lessons to help with their English, so what's your worry? To me it sounds like you're more bothered about the fact that the majority of the school is made up of foreigners. I think it would be better for THOSE children that your DD goes to another school because I think it's likely that she may grow up with similar feelings and therefore feel she is above the other children.

If you have so much money, move somewhere else. If your daughter not going to one of the schools you mentioned is such a big issue, surely your wife wont mind the extra few minutes getting to work. Surely your daughter comes first

The last time I checked Dulwich Infants were taking from no further than 700 yards from their door, sound, such was the demand for in-catchment places. Generally speaking, unless you occupy one of the enormous Georgian houses in the village or just beyond your chances of obtaining a place in the Hamlet or the Infants is near zero. And, while Charter is good for south London that's not exactly saying much these days. It can't hold a candle to the independent about which the OP was talking upthread.

OP, you need to move!

I can tell you a place where you can find houses under 600k, with gardens, and greenery, where milk and honey line the streets, where people are affluent and drive Volvo XC90s and Porches, and where all the primaries are rated ofsted outstanding.

But the statistics will also tell you that a large percentage of children dont have English as mother tongue, they have French, Italian, Spanish, Polish, etc. And a large percentage also live in social housing.

My dc goes to school in this area, and we are part of this statistics. But all are polite, and well behaved, holiday in Dubai and the St Lucia, and rent Villas in France.

It aint Hackney, though. But it is real.

I'm just intrigued as to what kind of job you do that means you can afford posh private schooling at £20,000 per annum or whatever, whilst living surrounded by Bangladeshi kids in council flats.

By the sound of your OP you are the lone white family with a small child who owns their own home. And are surrounded by horrid, common foreigners. I, too, am wondering why you don't just move if you are so rich and hate the area so much.

sowornout - peeps in the city can afford to retire at an early age having earned enough to keep them going for the rest of their life

I am not sure they are white lone family, he mentioned coming from colonies (so has his wife)

if you ever have time in London go for a ride on DLR from Bank and see how the surrounding changes as you travel between City and Lewisham :)

Canary Wharf Tower, is the second tallest habitable building in Britain at 244 metres (801 ft).The peninsula is an area of social extremes, comprising some of the most prosperous and most deprived areas of the country; nearby Blackwall is the 81st poorest ward in England out of over 8,000, while the presence of Canary Wharf gives the area one of the highest average incomes in the UK.

From your posts, I'm guessing the state school your are favouring is SJC. If your wife fulfills the church attendance requirements, based on previous years, your daughter will definitely get a place. Faith has priority over siblngs and C of E is not the dominant religion in the school. In 2012, 9/30 places were based on religion.

I really wouldn't worry about the academic impact of the EAL children in this school. They are very good at what they do and the children that need it are given lots of help. In my childs year most of Bangladeshi children started school with good English and they are well represented in the higher ability groups. By the end if Y6, the Bangladeshi children dominate the academic awards.

There is a social impact though, as there are a higher proportion of children are not available for parties and playdates, but it shouldn't have to be a big problem.

Visit the school and see if you like it. You will always haven the option to switchnto the private sector later - you need her to go somewhere until she is 7 anyway.

You could move to Horsham, your wife could commute to London Bridge and then tube to canary wharf - you could live in one of the top towns to live in with good state and private schools.

You don't have to stay in Tower Hamlets or Hackney.

Londonman.
Anyone facing that is going to find an alternative.
Move to sidcup or Orpington or blackheath if you cannot face that. Amazing schools. The grammar are brilliant.....the brightest kids and many from immigrant families who work their asses off at school. The most lovely school environment and free.

I used to do voluntary ESOL. The lady I taught was incredibly proud of her children.

The family were in some ways a stereotype, she had stayed at home to look after her children, husband went out to work the 1950s set up.

She had 4 children, one lawyer, one doctor, one medical student and one still at school who she hoped would also be a Dr.

How dare she send her very bright and hard working children to school no knowing any English, they obviously brought the entire school tumbling down the league tables.

You sound like a ponce and I bet u have a really sqeaky annoying voice. I bet your DD will be long gone by 18 if she has any sense.

I grew up in Central London and went to a school that taught in a foreign language, then a secondary with over 40 mother tongues. The secondary was not particularly good on paper, but my parents embraced the social/cultural experience and considered it one of the great advantages of living in London. I did ok academically, I havens PhD and have followed a professional career for the last 20 years; my siblings similar.