Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Primary school full - Aibu to appeal?

66 replies

MunchingCow · 15/05/2013 20:12

I'm a regular who has name changed for this post. Basically DH and I have 3 DC under the age of 7. We have always rented but have now saved enough for a deposit, rent is crippling us at over £1000PM. We've found a house which is within our budget (they are few and far between where we live!) and have put an offer in.

There is a school literally opposite the house which we hoped our DC could go to but I spoke to them today and they are full & so is every other school in the area (there are about 5).... I spoke to the local authority I they said they have space at a school which is 2 miles away.

We have one car which DH uses for work and cannot afford to run another one, but also cannot do an 8 mile trip on foot everyday. DS (4) has bad asthma and the 2 mile walk to school is along main roads.

I'm really upset and don't know what to do, should I appeal?

OP posts:

AuntieStella · 15/05/2013 20:39

Yes, the Infant Class Size (ICS) rules are law.

You can only win an appeal if you can show there has been a mistake that deprived your DC of a place, if the selection criteria are unlawful, or if the decision is so perverse it cannot be allowed to stand (very tough one this, think things like child protection issues).

Via waiting list might be a better option. Is it an area where people do move around a bit, and vacancies come up?

McNewPants2013 · 15/05/2013 20:39

It would take approx 50 minutes to walk that distance, which come the bad weather will be hell.

TheWoollybacksWife · 15/05/2013 20:40

Get on the waiting lists of all the schools that you would consider. It is likely that you would be high up the list for the one closest to your new house and further down for any others. There may be a fair amount of movement before September especially if you are in an area where parents choose private schooling.

Check with your local authority with regards to late application or in year application policy.

Whilst you are entitled to appeal there are only a certain set of limited circumstances that would result in your appeal being successful. There is a thread in Primary Education on tips for appeal.

Check with your preferred schools regularly to see if a place is available. I think there is a limit to when a school has to keep a waiting list open.

Consider home educating in the meantime unless you are offered free transport to your allocated school. There is lots of support on the Home Ed boards here.

Rainbowinthesky · 15/05/2013 20:41

What about public transport? Cycling? Can dh use public transport or a bike to get to work? Lot of people walk long distances to school or have to get another car to do school journey.

Rainbowinthesky · 15/05/2013 20:42

Personally I would HE if you are not working until nearer spaces come up.

bananananacoconuts · 15/05/2013 20:45

I moved to a house directly opposite a school and appealed successfully! As soon as the panel heard it was 35metres from my door step to the school office they burst into laughter and said do not worry, your dc's will be going to this school!

shewhowines · 15/05/2013 20:46

The fact that you will have just moved into the area puts you above others on the wait list. Then proximity comes second

Original poster

MunchingCow · 15/05/2013 20:46

bananananacoconuts - was that when they had the infant class size rule?

OP posts:

AvrilPoisson · 15/05/2013 20:48

But isn't the DD already Reception aged? i.e. an in-year transfer?

Original poster

MunchingCow · 15/05/2013 20:49

DD is in year 3, DS is in reception and we have a toddler.

OP posts:

AvrilPoisson · 15/05/2013 20:49

Banana- if they were to take an extra child, they would have to employ another teacher- most schools cannot afford to do that, so they do not go over 30.

CloudsAndTrees · 15/05/2013 20:49

You have absolutely no grounds at all for an appeal, I'm sorry to say it but it would be a complete waste of your time. Apart from that, you can't appeal unless you have actually been turned down first, and it doesn't sound as though you have applied yet so there isn't even anything to appeal against.

You need to move house and then apply.

There is a limit of thirty for infant class sizes, and you can only win an appeal on an infant class size place if the LA have made a mistake on your application.

If you go over to the education boards, there are people on there who sit on appeal panels that know all the rules and give excellent advice.

Cloverer · 15/05/2013 20:52

It's definitely worth appealing for the Year 3 place - I think you need to demonstrate that the harm coming to the school if they give your DD a place is less than the harm caused to your DD by being denied a place.

Your Reception child could just stay on the waiting list for a while?

DameSaggarmakersbottomknocker · 15/05/2013 20:55

You need to move and then apply. There are exceptions allowed to the Infant Class Size rules when you apply outside of the normal admission round, but aside from some other exceptions it only applies when the LA can't offer you a place within a reasonable distance.

CloudsAndTrees · 15/05/2013 20:55

Year 3 doesn't come under infant class sizes, so you might be able to get a y3 place reasonably easily and then your younger child will probably be at the top of the waiting list under sibling rules and proximity.

If you offer gets accepted and you apply soon, a place may become available by the time you move.

DameSaggarmakersbottomknocker · 15/05/2013 20:57

If you apply and get a place for your yr 3 child it may place you higher on the waiting list if your LA have a sibling rule in their admissions policy.

steppemum · 15/05/2013 20:57

it is a little unclear from your post, but I don't think you have actually moved in yet? You need to have moved in, or at least have exchanged (you need to check what the LEA will accept.)

Once you have an address, then you can apply. You may well get your Y3 in, as they can go over 30 for Y3. (you may need to appeal to get it, but you stand a good chance if the house is that close)
You will not get them to accept a KS1 class over 30, even if you appeal, but if you are the waiting list, you would the be probably at the top, with a sibling in Y3 and living so close. You could then HE until a place came up.

It is worth asking what sort of turnover the school has. In dd2 reception class, it was full in sept, and has had 5 new children since (2 no show in sept and 3 left). It is an outstanding school, so popular, but area has high turnover.

tiggytape · 15/05/2013 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NynaevesSister · 15/05/2013 21:15

Come over to Primary Education in Education. Lots of help there.

The local authority is not correct when it says you can't make an in year application. But there are experts in that forum who can tell you exactly what your rights are and what you should do.

The law on admissions has changed nearly every year in the last five years. A lot of what has been said here is rubbish. TiggyTape is correct.

AvrilPoisson · 15/05/2013 21:44

Is your DS reception in September? If so, he'll still have to go on the waiitng list as all the places will have been allocated and issued to parents now.

Also- if you haven't yet moved in, you have no chance- you cannot use an address for school application unless you are actualy resident there.

AuntieStella · 15/05/2013 21:59

If you're still at the stage of offers, I don't think you'll be able to appeal yet, even if you thought you could put together a medical case (as the distance from your current home would scupper your argument about needing to be close).

If a school currently has vacancies, you can apply for places there and secure them from any UK address, but the children have to start attending in a reasonable time and transport will be down to you (as they are already at a school, you LEA won't fund a parental choice for a more distant one).

The sole provision in the Admissions Code for school entry before you actually move is for Armed Forces personnel with a valid postings order.

So, right now, you either go with the house you want (this one, or any other) and hope the school places can be managed when you do actually move, or you stay put.

Chocovore · 15/05/2013 21:59

So how far are is your current rental accommodation from your current school?

steppemum · 15/05/2013 22:23

just to be clear
appeals panels cannot grant appeals for inconvenience, or because you can't get them to the school because you don't have a car, or because mother is ill and can't get kids to school, or because there are no bus routes, or because or any reasons relating to being a human being and life!!

seriously it can only grant an appeal if going to the other school is detrimental to the child.
If this is a reception allocation decision, it would only be granted if they had done something wrong in the process.

and, if an appeal is granted, that then means you have the right to go to the school, you may still have to wait until a space comes available before you can actually start, because of the 30 limit.

tiggytape · 15/05/2013 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

steppemum · 15/05/2013 23:01

sorry, yes tiggytape is right, I was thinking of the waiting list, you can be no1, but if the class is at 31 because of a successful appeal, the you have to wait for 2 children to leave, IYSWIM

Flip

1 2 3