To think that no child should be allowed to ruin the learning of 29 children

[ReallyTired]

My son's year 6 class has been constantly distruped by one or two children. It is unfair that 28 children cannot learn because of the behaviour of one or two.

I feel it really doesn't matter what the reason is for a child who constantly misbehaves (before someone gets out the flame thrower/ violin) the other children have a right to learn in a calm ordered environment. Often badly children do not have learning difficulties or difficult family circumstances.

Or put it another way some children with special needs or a difficult home life have explematory behaviour.

It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need) or constantly shouting out or arguing with the teacher because their parents can't afford private school.

It would be interesting to know what other countries do with children who constantly distrupt the class. (Other than using the cane.)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

[CloudsAndTrees]

I don't have evidence, I have experience.

And it's not exactly hard to work out that limited resources can only stretch so far, and that behaviour support strategies don't work overnight.

[AmberLeaf]

Yes and for WellThen

[gordyslovesheep]

pmsl @ 'plenty of support' I have a child who disrupts lessons - she walks out of class and has explosive rages - has done since she was 2 - she is 10 and we FINALLY have a CAMH's referral ...REFERRAL mind - not actual action - we have had very little support because there is NO MONEY for it - less and less now as children's services have born the brunt of gov cuts

My daughter is also learning at a level 2/3 years AHEAD of her class mates - she is exceptionally bright and horribly mixed up and it breaks my fucking heart - sorry if your child is minorly inconvenienced

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'It is no good for anyone for the teacher to have to continually keep reprimanding for low level misbehaviour'


If something doesn't work the first time, or the second then why on earth do you keep doing the same thing continually

[greenformica]

We have huge problems in my sons school. The head is very accepting of bad behavior - lots of bright middle class able kids bouncing off the walls as a result.

[Dinkysmummy]

viviennemary my dd went to one of those schools everyone wants to get their kids into.
Yes until they said she had SN and it was behavioural in nature, and then forced us out.


-Maybe some of the posters that want segregation should approach their schools and ask them to do the same for their precious DC who are being robbed of an education by my 'naughty, disruptive and mean' 5yo with SN

[MerkinMaker]

Clouds: if it is not detrimental to a childs education to be continously taught by a TA then why are teachers needed?

[ll31]

While I can understand your frustration op,probably every parent can, but think answer is that there's no easy answer. And that parents of kids being disrupted can help at home,help lobby for needed resources etc. I do think that certainly in cases where there is no sen that a good teacher can sort a lot of disruption. and probably where there are sen issues too. Equally a teacher whose problems controlling class can exacerbate the issue with long term effects. this isn't a blame the teacher post just an acknowledgement of impact.

But op, the fact is all children are entitled to education ,not just ones who play nicely in the sand pit ...The ones who are disruptive for whatever reason are as deserving of education as your children.

[Trigglesx]

No, you still don't get it. Really really don't. The whole point is that if there was appropriate support brought into the classroom in a timely manner (you know, instead of waiting months), then some children that need extra assistance/attention will get it right away. Rather than the problems escalating while the school waits for funding or whatever.

If people pushed the government, LAs, etc for better funding and more timely response to problems, then maybe less narrow minded people will blame the poor children that are struggling while waiting for help.

Seriously, this is not rocket science. You really cannot grasp this? Short of drawing pictures, I'm at a loss as to how to simplify it for you.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

There are limited resources. .so lets them to the NT kids who need them less.

Hmm.

[AThingInYourLife]

"Wow. Another person that feels their lives will never be touched by anything. Rose coloured glasses... on that table over there. You'll need them too."



I have no idea what you mean, never mind how you think you can come to any conclusions about what my life has been touched by.

Thinking seriously disruptive pupils should be educated in an environment that suits them and stops their disruption of the education if other children doesn't seem particularly outrageous.

All children have a right to an education. All if them.

And not just an "education" in tolerance.

[CloudsAndTrees]

BeerTricks, what makes you think that this has anything to do with FSM or even SEN?

It doesn't.

SEN may be involved, but it's not always. And especially when it comes to the younger children I work with, children who may have SEN don't yet have a diagnosis. And without the diagnosis, they don't get the support.

I know my schools behaviour policy thanks, it's all about reinforcing positive behaviour. Where it talks about consequences of negative behaviour, the worst consequence is exclusion, and various levels of exclusion prior to that. But if that's not acceptable to you, then perhaps you want to take that up with OFSTED who have recently given us a good report and commented on the excellent behaviour of our pupils and the way we deal with our higher than average number of children with SEN.

[somewhereaclockisticking]

Dd1 and dd 2 have the same teacher for a subject. They are different years but both talk about very disruptive kids in their classes. I don't know if these disruptive kids have special needs and my girls don't know either but the teacher would know. However the teacher deals with it by just shouting all the time and it seems very little time is spent on teaching. Surely if the disruptive kids had special needs a teacher would not be allowed to shout? These kids are 14 & 15 so I would imagine if they were Sen it would be known by now. The teacher is actually off sick now and a substitute teacher is there and now he is spending lesson time just shouting. I don't think both teachers would shout at kids with Sen so does that mean that in this case the disruptive kids are just doing it for fun?

[CloudsAndTrees]

There are limited resources. .so lets them to the NT kids who need them less.

If I'm interpreting that correctly, then it's working on the assumption that the only child in the class with SEN, or indeed any slightly higher than average need, is the one who is being disruptive. What about the children with SEN that are found in lots of classes that aren't disruptive? What about the ones that have no SEN but are just naturally lower achievers academically? What about the NT children that are just anxious or need support in the variety of ways that NT children naturally do?

[AmberLeaf]

And especially when it comes to the younger children I work with, children who may have SEN don't yet have a diagnosis. And without the diagnosis, they don't get the support

Well your school can't be that good then.

My sons diagnosis took about 2 years, but as soon as his school recognised that he probably had autism, they treated him as though already diagnosed and implemented strategies.

That is a good school.

[Trigglesx]

And without the diagnosis, they don't get the support.

WRONG. Support is supposed to be based on demonstrated need, NOT diagnosis. If your school is waiting for a diagnosis, then they are very much in the wrong.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Ok, lightbulb moment for me and I am perhaps projecting far too much over my frustration about a situation I am dealing with at work at the moment with a lovely, but disruptive child.

We have a strong and consistently applied behaviour policy, we have a supportive head that does what she can with the LA, we have excellent behaviour in the vast majority of our pupils. And we still have an ongoing problem.

[timidviper]

I am a believer that generally children conform to expectations of them given the right support. If a child is brought up with expectations of good behaviour, they will probably behave well and vice versa if the parents/ school/ whoever expect them to be naughty, funny or excused from punishment no matter what.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Amber and Triggles, yes, you are right, I know that. When my own son was diagnosed it made no difference to the way his school dealt with things, everything was already in place.

But in my experience, it is far easier to get support with a diagnosis. I as the parent wasn't offered support until we had it, although my child was getting everything possible.

My school is not waiting for diagnosis, we are waiting for someone that can do more than 'just' teach. When it's not obvious where the problem lies, it is very difficult to go about solving it.

[OliviaMMumsnet]

Evening all