to think 'sod it' and just have a baby anyway?

[KentishWine]

We have no money, we live in a shit flat and I'm about to start a new job. It's a dreadful time to even be thinking about having a baby. But I'm 36 and the proverbial clock has been ticking for the last year. Its so bloody loud it's driving me insane. Our financial/housing situation won't improve until I'm at least 40. Not an ideal time to start trying for a baby (especially as my DM had an early menopause at 43). I want to do it now!

After rent, bills, debts etc, DH and I have about £500 left over each month for everything else. There's no way I can afford to be a SAHM, we'll both have to work FT so FT childcare is our only choice. This costs £1200 a month (London). We're short by £700! As far as I can work out, we're not eligable for tax credits etc as DH is subject to immigration control until 2015 (I'm British, he's Brazillian). We are eligable for £20/month child benefit, but that wouldn't even touch the sides.

It makes me so sad that we're too poor for a baby. By the time we're not too poor, it's likely to be too late. AIBU to just get pregnant and hope for the best? What's the worst that could happen?

[ImpatientOne]

Having been ttc for 2 years - after sorting jobs, marriage house etc - I would say do it but I think you should look at all of the options discussed such as moving out of London. I appreciate you have a niche career but it doesn't sound very well paid? Could you/DH look at other jobs even for the short term?

[Mumsyblouse]

And- while I'm on the subject, in my husband's country, pretty much everyone lives in so-called 'shitty flats' without the brand new kitchens/new sofa every few years that people have here- should the entire nation give up having children, even though they can feed and clothe them?

The Uk may be a materially wealthy country, but as survey after survey shows, it is not that nice a place to bring up children in comparison to supposedly poorer parts of the world. A lot of people here don't like children and it is not that family friendly. You may be better off moving to Brazil, renting a cheap flat and going somewhere where people actually like children and don't think you ought to have a pension plan in place before having them.

[aurynne]

I will definitely be showing this thread to any of the many people who tell me I'm selfish because I am not having children.

So you are encouraging a woman to "go for it" and give birth to another human being, who will by all means be living in poverty, whose father may be deported in the future... because otherwise his/her mother may regret it?

So the only person who counts here is the mother, who may not "realise her dream"? There are people everywhere giving up dreams because their situation is not the ideal, or even appropriate, to fulfil their dream. There are other dreams in life. I personally know many women ho did want to have children, but in the end it did not work because they had no partner/no money/no stable life, so they did the responsible thing and decided not to have them.

And you know what? it was a painful decision, but these women have devoted their lives to other causes, and now have accepted their childlessness and moved on. They are happy and fulfilled doing other things than procreating. Women are not just a uterus with legs, you know? You are still a valuable, worthwhile individual even if there are not bits of your very own genes walking and talking.

I really despair sometimes.

[KentishWine]

mummysblouse yes, I totally agree that we are better of than most people in the world in terms of accommodation. We're certainly better off than many families I've seen in DHs home country. We would have to share a bedroom with DC and are prepared to do that until we'd have more money for a 2 bed place. The damp and noise in our flat are the issue! We'd probably have to move to another one bed, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Mumsyblouse]

auryanne did you miss the bit where the OP just said she really wants a baby? The child won't be living in 'poverty' for gods sake, not compared with 90+% of the world's population!

[MyDarlingYoni]

If you feel your finances will imprive in a few years go for it. your most expensive thing wil be childcare unless you can have one of you at home for two years....

everything else - you can get free or v cheaply. ie cots, clothes, equipment.

[aurynne]

Many people really want to be a medical doctor, really want to find the love of their life and marry them, really want to have a father who loves them, really want to travel into space, really want many things they are not in the position to get. You may think that everyone who really wants something should get it, I disagree. Especially when the life of another innocent person has to be affected in order for that person to get their wish.

Wishes are not "granted". They need to be worked for, and they do not always work out. People move on to other dreams.

[bigkidsdidit]

The idea that because this isn't Somalia, living in poverty is fine, is a very odd one. Growing up in poverty, in an overcrowded, damp flat, sounds miserable to me. You onlt have to read threads on here by people struggling to see how awful it is. And to choose that for a child? I don;t understand.

But I know what it's like to have that biological pull, OP, and I wish you the best. Seriously, look at moving out of London. It is amazingly cheaper and life much more affordable (we will be paying £1000 a month childcare for 2, for example, rahter than 1100 for one!)

[Sorelip]

Do you live very centrally OP? If so, weigh up cheaper rents further out with travel costs versus staying central.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.turn2us.entitledto.co.uk/entitlementcalculator.aspx?ref=www.turn2us.org.uk/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">www.turn2us.entitledto.co.uk/entitlementcalculator.aspx?ref=www.turn2us.org.uk/

See what you are entitled to as a British citizen.

If this still doesn't meet the gap, try going on the Money Saving Expert website, posting your statement of affairs, and see what advice you get about cutting costs.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Aurynne, i agree. We have become a culture of I want x so am going to have it regardless of the fact i cant afford it.

A child comes with huge financial responsibilities. Having a child when your income doesnt cover it is selfish.

[KentishWine]

It's not like I want a horse or pedigree dog. I want a baby. The desire is motivated by biology, which I appear to have very little control over. The thought of not having a baby makes me really sad. If I could stop that feeling I could and life would be a lot easier!

[EasilyBored]

I'm not going to say you shouldn't have a baby, because for some women it's such a strange, physical, pull it would be almost unbearable not to.

BUT... those people saying 'just do it, it will work out, you'll find away'. That has got to be the shitest bit of advice ever. You don't need to go much further than these boards to see that, actually, you don't always find a way. People are in really really dire financial situations. You would have to be an idiot to knowingly go into a situation like that just blindly crossing your fingers that you'll 'figure it out'. And as for 'you never regret having a child, you would always regret not having one' BULLSHIT? Plenty enough people on here have admitted to regretting having a baby. So just stop with that piece of crap. You're just trying to justify your own selfish need to have a baby - if that is how you feel then fine but admit it, don't spout off trite little bits of rubbish like that, because they just aren't true.

OP - I think you need to really explore all your options, try the CAB and MSE and really figure out your budget, your obligations RE immigration, your rights to state help etc, and make an informed choice. If all those things don't add up, and there is just no way of making it work? Then you have to decide where to go from that I guess.

[marriedinwhiteagain]

If you want a baby OP then have one; providing you don't expect the rest of the population to subsidise you. Would that everyone had to cut their cloth without recourse to public funds. I had my first at nearly 35 having spent the years between 21 and then building up capital. What has prevented you from doing the same?

[Fairenuff]

Just start a little research. See how much it costs to rent a one bedroom flat in different parts of the country. You will be amazed at how cheap they are in certain areas (not all undesirable areas either, just in comparison to London).

Then see find out how wages compare. Do the math. You get a much better wage-outgoings ratio and life is more affordable.

Then see how much childcare costs are in the areas that you think might be suitable. You could find out so much in just a fews days and you might be pleasantly surprised at what options are out there.

[KentishWine]

marriedinwhite - in my 20s I never thought I'd want kids (or to get married) so saving for that wasn't a priority. Then I moved overseas to work for a charity where i was paid a pittance. It's only in the last year I've really thought about children. If I could have my time again, I'd save more, train for a higher paid job etc etc.

[Pigsmummy]

I started TTC at 36 (actually on my birthday I panicked and we started then) it took a year to get pregnant, I saved up to pay myself a "wage" now that I am on statutory maternity pay and it's working out ok. If you are the same and stash £500 a month then you could have circa £10K behind you when baby is born, that's a good fund to start a family with.

Also shop around for bargains, I got everything at least half price using good websites (kiddicare, precious little ones etc).

[Brices]

What would you do if you won the lottery?
Have a baby
I would never have had enough money for my potential child
I'm more in the "sod it"camp I don't think there is a right time but having worked in fertility clinics I would be more aware that choosing the "right" time has little to do with money.
You know maybe it won't be ideal but your child will be loved and wanted

[aurynne]

KentishWine, so basically you did whatever the hell you wanted during your whole life, not planning for the future, not bothering to create the stable situation which would benefit a child, and your latest fad (as said by yourself, "It's only in the last year I've really thought about children") is to have a baby.

This just confirms what I said in my previous posts, really.

What happens when you have the child and suddenly you want something different next year? Do you think having a baby is suddenly going to transform you magically into a responsible individual? Do you know you can't return them to the stork?

[Xmasbaby11]

I think you need to change your situation first, unless you genuinely believe you can magic up an income to bring up a baby on. I'm sorry - it's harsh advice, but I think you know it.

[Cloverer]

Don't be ridiculous aurynne How many people spend 10 years planning and saving before they have children? How many children are planned at all?

Children don't cost a lot of money - living in London does. You don't need a £30k a year income to raise a child.

[EasilyBored]

Children actually do cost quite a bit of money. Childcare fees (if you can't afford to give up work), clothes, shoes, food, nappies etc...

[bigkidsdidit]

that's harsh aurynne - most people don't think about babies until the urge hits them!

[Snazzynewyear]

Start your new job, save hard for six months then start trying while still saving. Think about your DH being the stay at home parent. Think about moving out of London.

[bigkidsdidit]

lol at 'children don't cost much'

breastfed babies, perhaps. Children cost a bloody fortune!