To raise my child as a vegetarian?

[rstuk]

Both myself and DH are vegetarians and we would like our children to be vegetarians too for both health and ethical reasons, however I'm a bit unsure because all of the websites i've checked have conflicting opinions on whether or not this is good for a small child (digestion issues etc) and our parents (non/ex-vegetarians) think we're 'depriving' the child
Help anyone? i'm completely lost

The main problem with bringing up kids as vegetarians is the difficulty in finding bioavailable iron and B12 in vegetarian food. Some veggie foods are rich in iron (such as pulses and leafy vegetables), but it's a form known as non-heme iron, of which we can process and use about 10%. Heme-iron, which is the prevalent in animal foods, can be processed and used by humans up to 80% (and it is more abundant in animal foods to start with). Pregnant women who are vegetarian NEED iron supplements, I still have not met a single one who is not iron-deficient. And most non-pregnant women could benefit from iron supplements. One of my friends, a veggie, thought she wouldn't need them. She also went through periods of being really tired and distracted. She had a blood test and yup, very low ferritin (hamoglobin is the "currently available" iron, ferritin are iron stores, in lay terms). She started on iron supplements and in her own words, "her life has changed".

B12 is completely absent in non-animal products. Don't let anyone fool you telling you spirulina has loads of it... it does, but it's a form with no bioavailability at all for humans (i.e. you will pee it all out). There is no B12 in Vegemite, and the one in Marmite is added as a supplement (no B12 in yeasts). It is not such a big deal for adults, but it IS for babies and toddlers, and for pregnant women, as B12 is crucial in brain development (and children's brains are not completely developed until 3 years of age).

Spirulina, however, has a very good protein content, very similar to the amino acid composition in meat. So it is recommended in order for vegetarian children to achieve proper muscle development.

and of course all children love Spirulina.

Even I, a true spinach and sprouts lover, can barely stomach that bitter slime.

hahahaha I loath the damned thing. But I am not a vegetarian, so I have no need for it :P

Children usually do not love Marmite either...

What about eggs though, aurynne?

We're omnivores, fgs, there's s reason kids can't get enough iron from a veggie diet! They may also eat way too many carbs- pasta/rice/bread etc.

i agree we shouldn't have too much meat though- the occasional free-range chicken dish, for example rather than

a daily, processed burger. Also respect to those veggies who are giving their kids the occasional meat/fish dish.

Salbertina - you don't know what you're talking about.

There are PLENTY of ways to get enough iron in a vegetarian diet. It just requires planning. Spinach, tofu, pumpkin/squash/sunflower seeds are just three examples.

It's all about balancing meals and making sure our children get the right amount of nutrients, and of course, they don't have too much of certain things.

All parents should do that, not just veggie parents.

Interesting way to express disagreement...

Are you claiming we're not natural omnivores?? Iron levels far lower in green veg than meat and of course it's stating the blooming obvious to say we should all watch our kids' diet.

But you didn't say we need to watch our children's diet, you said children can't get enough iron from a vegetarian diet. The first would would have been true, the second is rubbish.

aurynne - re the B12 issue, you seem to be confused between vegetarian and vegan diets. There is absolutely no difficulty with getting sufficient B12 in a vegetarian diet, as it is found in eggs and dairy products. Vegans are the ones that have to pay a bit more attention, but many vegan foods have added B12 so it's not really a big problem unless you avoid all processed food.

And re the iron in pregnancy thing - my iron levels were fine in my first pregnancy, despite having been vegetarian for about 15 years by then. They were a little low in the last couple of months of my second pregnancy, but then I think at least half of the non-vegetarian mothers I know were also low on iron in pregnancy despite eating red meat.

I see nothing wrong with it. Been a veggie for years, had no problem getting the right nutrition. OH is a meat eater so we will probably do a 50/50 split with our kids until they are old enough to make a choice.

Whoever mentioned veggies not getting the right nutrition - it's OK if you don't feel comfortable with vegetarianism, but backing it up with bad science is very wrong :/

Salbertina we are omnivores meaning we can happily live on meat, vegetables, grains and pulses. Cats are carnivores for eg, they need meat. Cows and vegetarian because they can't live on meat. Humans have the choice. We are healthy enough without eating meat, and healthy enough if we do.
I don't agree with this idea that meat eating children get an ideal balance in their diet and vegetarian children need a lot of special thinking and planning. Many many meat eaters feed their children a carb heavy, meat heavy, low of fresh fruit and veg diet, with a lot of salt and processed food. I actually think it's simpler than we assume. I make sure DS has a variety of food throughout the day, to include grains, dairy, protein, fruit and veg. That comes quite naturally to me and doesn't involve spirulina or similar weirdness. He doesn't have a very varied palate but he eats enough of what he needs. He's healthy and strong. Job done!

Thanks for the simple explanation

My point is that as natural omnivores, we therefore naturally need a well-balanced diet which should include the occasional portion of meat/fish. I realise I am hugely outnumbered by veggies on here, fair enough, as you were. Just expect -and respect- different viewpoints if you post in AIBU!

I'm vegan and have my iron levels tested regularly, the last time a couple of months ago my levels were higher than average. It is possible if you eat properly. On the other hand when I was pregnant with my DTS and eating meat, my levels were so low I could barely manage the energy to get out of bed so had to take supplements.

Yes, but as natural omnivores, there is no should about where we obtain our minerals, protein etc. you believe we should eat occasional meat and fish, I disagree. As long as the diet is balanced it will meet our needs as humans. It's a choice...

I was raised veggie, and am now pregnant and will raise my children veggie. I've never had a health problem related to my diet, I've never been deficient in anything, never over weight, never underweight, although I was slim as a young teenager. My two brothers are the same, one is very tall, the other is tall as well and very well built, and both still do not touch meat or meat products (gelatin, supplements etc) I eat a much more varied diet than most of my friends, and certainly more varied than my husband ever did before we were married. I do rely on Quorn quite heavily though, this thread has inspired me to look up some recipes to try this week!

exexpat I did not say it is impossible to get these nutrients in a vegetarian/vegan diet. But it is indeed very difficult to get the proper balance, and as you say, frequently have to resort to supplementation or fortification... when if we just made use of our evolved omnivore gastrointestinal system we could obtain all necessary nutrients, in the right proportions, without needing to import foods which we would never have access to naturally otherwise (such as cyanobacteria, tofu or quorn).

And what I talked about is not "bad science". It is bloody good one, published in reputable international journals and thoroughly peer-reviewed. Bad science is what you find most times in "vegan online websites" and "the natural world magazine" :P

The British Dietetic (you know the qualified EXPERTS in diet and nutrition) make it very clear that vegetarian and vegan diets are perfectly healthy (for adults and children alike), providing meals are carefully balanced.

I trust the opinion over the fully qualified experts over random people on the internet.

I've not seen anyone say this on here, but my vegetarian parents were told that raising children as vegetarians would "stunt growth".

I'm 6ft 4, my brother is 6ft 7 and my sister is 6ft 1.

If it stunts growth, thank heavens for that, otherwise we may have ended up over 7ft!

Younger Japanese are certainly getting taller (as are younger generations in most fully developed countries - most people are taller than their parents) but I think the effect is exaggerated in that study because the first cohort was one which was stunted by the effects of serious malnutrition during the war years in Japan.

Among Japanese families I know, the grandparents (born in the 1930s and so growing up at the peak of food shortages) are tiny, but their children (my generation, born in the 1960s) are often a head taller; the third generation (born in the late 80s/90s) seems to be growing up a little taller than their parents, but the difference is nowhere near as dramatic, despite a big leap in the consumption of meat and dairy products in the past two or three decades.

We're a completely vegetarian household. DS is now 6 and very tall, strong and healthy - he's had 100% school attendance for two years apart from one day when I was too unwell to walk him round, and has never needed to see a doctor. He has a suitable liquid iron and B12 supplement several times a week, which he loves the taste of, we make sure he eats a varied, balanced diet and we've never encountered a single problem. We've always let him make his own decisions about sweets that other people give him in party bags etc. but he gets me to help him check for gelatine and then politely declines or gives them away to another child. He's far healthier than many of his meat-eating friends, in fact!

The question about whether vegetarians are shorter on average is interesting, but it would be very difficult to separate out from genetic/ethnic factors.

The only country I can think of which has a large number of vegetarians by choice (rather than by default because of poverty) is India. Indian men are short by world standards on average, but there are huge variations mainly to do with socio-economic status. I can't find any data, but I would guess that high-caste, wealthy, Hindu vegetarians would tend to be better nourished and therefore taller than meat-eaters living in poverty.

I certainly don't think being vegetarian from birth has stunted the growth of my two DCs - both followed the 98th centile line from birth, DD is still the tallest girl in her year at age 10; DS has now (I think) stopped growing at age 14 and nearly 6ft. He is by far the tallest male in our family, and is about 3 inches taller than his meat-eating father was.

x-posted - DS is March-born but the second tallest in his class. DH and I are both slightly on the shortarse side, so it's not as if he has very tall genes.

Height is also favoured in terms of status though isn't it, tall people in most societies are rewarded with higher status, better jobs etc. ? So, if Indians from the higher castes are taller it probably isn't all due to diet.