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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Medical/christian ethics. Long.

86 replies

stopmovingthefurniture · 01/05/2013 20:44

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. I need advice on how to deal with a orthopedic surgeon (hereafter called X) who will not see me again until I go and ask my mother for forgiveness for the anger he believes I'm holding against her (but is harassing via email all the same!).

X is a family friend, in church leadership close to my parents. The denomination is evangelical. When he heard that I've been left disabled following a pregnancy, X offered to help me out of concern and is not being paid. He practices privately and is accountable to no one, at least in this instance. He checked at least twice that I was ok with his approach ('treating the whole person'). I gave consent, thinking that it sounded pleasantly holistic.

X has been taking a thorough history before doing anything - a deeply invasive process that took about seven hours, spread over 3-4 visits (plus very probing homework). While he was gentle and almost uncomfortably fatherly, it was clear that he was trying to zero in on anger towards DM during the questioning. DM was a controlling, possessive parent and I was a depressed teenager as a result. (Incidentally, X's history was a much more invasive and directive than a psychiatrist would carry out). I ended up actually apologising for not having much anger these days, having talked it through many years ago.

X now wants me to go to my mother re: forgiveness because (a) seeking forgiveness is obligatory for a professing christian and (b) it will create a physical release that will bring my physical up to a standard that he can use a medical intervention (steroid injection into the pelvic area).

On X's last visit, his manner was completely changed. He raised his voice and vehemently began to say I was ill because of the sin in my life; I needed to seek my mother's forgiveness for how I'd felt about her through my childhood and beyond. I tried to disagree and he held up my 'homework', half-shouting 'It's all over this!'. In the same tone, he virtually shouted what I'd written: 'deep unhappiness, isolation, annoyance...'. These emotions hadn't been connected with my mum and he'd made the word 'annoyance' up. When I pointed this out, he seemed very irritated and said 'Come on, there must have been anger!' He quoted a psalm in which the writer says that his bones ache as a result of sin (proof that bone problems can be the result of sin). Then another biblical example, of a man who had been thrown into torment because he had not forgiven a debt despite having had a larger debt forgiven himself. 'Would you say you were in torment?' he asked. I felt cornered because I'm clearly in torment. So I tried to engage with the request (why DM exactly) and X told me I was arrogantly overthinking when all that was required was faith, quoting the example of the Old Testament character who was cured of an illness by washing seven times in the Jordan, a river he considered unclean.

DH was tried to clarify the request and engage with it on my behalf, to which X repeatedly said 'look, I've been at this a long time' and went on to describe a past case where a woman in exactly my situation who hadn't done what he'd asked. He didn't want to say what had happened to her. X said the situation was urgent and deterioration would occur if the treatment didn't progress. He told me I may well have to hand over parenting responsibilities to my mother if I don't follow his 'request' (something I'd earlier said I had fears about, despite a specialist physio saying this isn't going to happen).

  • X finished the consultation by telling me to arrange another when I'd done what he'd asked. I haven't done it and wasn't sure what to say to him, so I haven't yet contacted him (3 weeks later). He has now sent a couple of angry emails reiterating the urgent nature of the case and 'ramifications as stated'. I feel trapped.

  • My very abusive FIL is also a church leader (same kind of church). DP refused to obey him and divorce me when we were struggling a couple of months into our marriage (FIL said that God would understand it was really an annulment because I was not 'as advertised'...) We eventually stepped back from relationship with them because it was simply toxic. I suspect he's the next person X would be sending me to ask forgiveness (X says God wishes everyone to be reconciled).

How do I deal with this? Is there anyone out there to help with this?

OP posts:
Melawen · 01/05/2013 21:11

What?! This is COMPLETELY outside the bounds of professionalism. I have got so much I want to say and I'm so angry on your behalf that I just can't get the words out!!! Angry

I understand that there are some people that do work holistically, but this is NOT holism. This is bullying, plain and simple. He needs to be reported to whichever body you can find - GMC, BMA, Royal College of Surgeons, or whatever professional body you can find where you are. If you need help with this there are various patient groups that you can seek help from even if I can't think of any right now.

Most hospitals have a PALS department (which may not be relevant here as this is a private practice) BUT the nearest PALS dept may be able to offer advice.

I am seething for you!!

NorthernLurker · 01/05/2013 21:12

'I try to respect peoples choices in belief as part of my efforts to become a peaceful Buddhist - but this is exactly the sort of thing that makes we want to tear down every sign I see for the Alpha course and shout loon at every JW that comes to our door and basically blow up every church I see.'

Errrrrrr - keep trying with the Buddism I think. You do know that JW and Christians are very different and there's NOTHINg in the Alpha course or indeed in the teachings of Christ to back up this abusive bully in his misuse of his position don't you?
Given that churches are blwn up in various parts of the world as a way to persecute Christians I find your remark in bad taste to say the least, though I sympathise with the anger.

stopmovingthefurniture · 01/05/2013 21:13

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I'm in the UK. I didn't realise he was accountable to GMC despite working privately.

If I have a responsibility to report him I'll do so. Had hoped to find a softer response for my parents' sake.

It's reassuring to hear you all say this is madness. It felt like madness but you get sucked in to a certain extent. Irrational guilt.

I will see if he's registered and report back.

OP posts:
FarBetterNow · 01/05/2013 21:16

This man is not helping you.
Do not reply to his emails - just ignore them, but do not delete as you will need them as evidence.
Maybe put them in a seperate folder so you don't see them in your inbox.

StrangeGlue · 01/05/2013 21:18

I think you should speak to the police about this man for two reasons . Firstly he's putting yours and I assume other people at risk. Secondly he is harassing you and that isn't legal. Do not respond to him and keep copies of everything you get from him. He is not above the law because of his status in the community.

Squitten · 01/05/2013 21:19

Good grief! Absolutely report him - he sounds mad!!

Get to the GP and get referred somewhere

Blessyou · 01/05/2013 21:20

Even if he is not registered, report him.
GMC have a role in ensuring people who are not registered do not practice medicine, privately or otherwise.

Charlesroi · 01/05/2013 21:20

Keep the abusive, bullying emails. The man is a fruitloop who is trying to manipulate you, and doing it in the name of God. He's a disgrace to his profession .

Go to a proper doctor for treatment (or at the very least get a second opinion).
I really hope you feel better soon.

nenevomito · 01/05/2013 21:27

If he's a surgeon, he'll be registered. Report him to the GMC, send his emails and explain the situation.

This blows every other story of unprofessionalism I have ever heard out of the water.

jackstini · 01/05/2013 21:29

Def report him - he is not helping you, bullying you even.

The forgiveness issue is a separate one; how do you feel about it?
Speaking as someone who forgave someone something I never thought I would - it took an immense burden from me.

A friend asked me who it was hurting holding onto the hate - the only person was me.
She also said, just because you forgive and let it go, does NOT mean it didn't happen.

Do you have a faith and if so are you feeling any conflict?

Sometime forgiveness can help rather than bottling up - although still think this man is completely overstepping the line and is bonkers, not going about things in the right way AT ALL!

pointythings · 01/05/2013 21:35

Since you're in the UK - report, report, report!

DontmindifIdo · 01/05/2013 21:36

Report him, GMC and police.

then tomorrow, go to see your GP, tell them all of this, get back in the NHS system.

Deal with the health issues, that this man is not behaving in a professional way and that you need help, and then look at the spiritual side - but I would talk this side through with someone from a different church.

TrucksAndDinosaurs · 01/05/2013 21:42

There is nothing ethical or Christian about this.
This person should not be practicing medicine.
Report to GMC
Consider reporting to police as well.
Constituted harassment: 1997 Protection From Harassment Act, a course of conduct on more than one occasion causing alarm and distress.

This is abuse of the vulnerable and quite breathtakingly appalling. To use a position of religious and medical authority to abuse a patient and family friend is disgraceful.

stopmovingthefurniture · 01/05/2013 21:47

Don't know his GMC registration number but will find it out.

Thank you again for the kind responses. I'll let the surgeon know I'm withdrawing from treatment without giving a reason. Will look into the complaints procedure on the GMC website.

jack- thanks for your thoughts on forgiveness. I agree that it can be liberating - just not in this context :)

OP posts:
iklboo · 01/05/2013 21:53

If you google LRMP (List of Registered Medical Practitioners) & enter his name you can find his GMC number.

MarvellousYou · 01/05/2013 21:54

FWIW I can see how you've got into this situation OP, I had a similar experience over post-natal depression and the churches (hidden) view of the medical model. I suffered for alot longer than necessary because I trusted that it was a spiritual issue.

You're not alone OP and it's not easy to see the people we view as authoritative as abusers especially when they use something so close to our hearts as a weapon to hurt us. God does not want you to suffer and He would not hold back healing from you, He is loving, kind and merciful, I think you know this man is not acting out of love for you x

hiddenhome · 01/05/2013 21:55

He is harassing you Shock

report
report
report

I hope you manage to find some resolution.

jackstini · 01/05/2013 21:58

You're welcome Stop.

Be strong on leaving the treatment, he doesn't need any explanation.
You just need to do what's best for you.

LessMissAbs · 01/05/2013 22:00

X is a family friend, in church leadership close to my parents

This is a conflict of interest and a breach of professional ethics. You could make a complaint to the GMC.

Alternatively, you could stop seeing him and see another doctor on the NHS.

interalia · 01/05/2013 22:05

Get them GMC on his arse.

What is this crackpot church he works in? Is it some kind of cult?

Pigsmummy · 01/05/2013 22:06

Go to see a doctor, obe who has your best medical interests at heart. I am not knocking religion, far from it I am a Christian, but this man isn't treating you as you wish.

greenbananas · 01/05/2013 22:10

This man is wrong in so many ways, very abusive, and it's awful that you are going through this.

Presumably, you have some knowledge of the Bible, given your upbringing... can you imagine Jesus behaving like that? This man is not helping to heal you, he is hurting you with his damaging, irreligious nonsense. He is twisting scripture to suit his own ends, and the whole thing sounds evil to me.

For example, example, blaming your condition on your sin is total rubbish!! Do you remember the story about the man born blind? (John ch 9) - the disciples asked who had sinned, that man or his parents, and Jesus said "Neither this man or his parents sinned, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life".

How dare he demand that you seek forgiveness from your parents? It is not their forgiveness that matters - and he is saying that you were wrong to be hurt, which clearly not the case.

Please do report this man, and make sure you get the right help from people qualified to give it.

Not all evangelicals are like your FIL and this dodgy, horrible man.

BrienneOfTarth · 01/05/2013 22:16

This man is an abuser - you clearly have the strength and confidence not to be deceived by him and are quite rightly backing away - well done! but it is important for the sake of future intended victims of his actions that you do whatever you can to stop him falsely gaining the trust and confidence of others.

Forgiveness is indeed good for the soul when/if one has the strength for it, BUT the idea that granting or witholding forgiveness can have any effect at all on medical issues is quackery that is utterly unethical.

justabigdisco · 01/05/2013 22:24

OP. I'm a doctor. This man sounds dangerous and it is absolutely essential that you report him to the GMC. Sorry, I guess you probably don't want to cause problems within your family, but I have never heard such a scary story about a doctor. Please, please report to the GMC.

RescueCack · 01/05/2013 22:33

ShockShockShock As an evangelical Christian this is horrifying. He needs reporting.

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