FIL lost it with the kids.. Perspective needed

[mousemole]

My head's in a muddle with this one and I'm bloomin angry.
Yesterday we were at the in laws for a family get together. Nice day but FIL gets stressed by our boys aged 7,5 and 2 going within 5 metres a glass/ tea cup/ ornament. He's quite a shouty man and has very limited patience. Anyway, we were about to leave when the two youngest started bickering over a toy. I got up to go and pack our stuff up, left husband sat with the boys, FIL and other family members. I came back into the room 2 minutes later to find FIL dragging the youngest 2 boys by their wrists across the room. They were hysterical and clearly in pain. Apparently he had flipped at their bickering and told them to get out the room. He is a big, strong 6ft 4 man, they are 2 and 4. I shouted 'what the hell is going on ?' at FIL and DH ( who did nothing but that's another story), grabbed the boys and went to the car with them where it took 5 mins to calm them down from their hysteria.
I agree it's their house and their rules but I am livid that he manhandled the kids. AIBU ?

[freddiemisagreatshag]

Yes but look at it from the FIL perspective. The parents had done nothing. His own son was sitting there doing nothing.

He snapped and removed them. Firmly. He didn't wallop them, he removed them.

Meh. I don't see the big deal.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

If the parents had stepped up to the mark, both of them, and done their fucking job as parents, then it wouldn't have happened.

I cannot abide bickering badly behaved children and have been at family dinners where other children's behaviour has seriously gripped my shit and I have left early because of it.

And just because DH is at his parents' doesn't mean he's able to opt out and sit there like a pudding and let his children misbehave.

[Mumsyblouse]

I agree it's not that big a deal as if he walloped them but have you never had friends over and their kids have started bickering and you really wish they'd say something or just hurry up and go, but you don't leap up and drap them across the room.

He sounds like he was an angry dad and he needs to know he can't be an angry grandfather. I wouldn't allow my FIl to do that, he's big and scary and even I would be terrified. No. Not ok with his grandchildren.

[KatieScarlett2833]

FIL did similar once when DC were small.
After I'd torn him a new arsehole he saw the error of his ways. Didn't wait for DH, was in full mummy tiger mode.
Bullies respect strength IMO and FIL now knows that if he ever goes there again, he will be very sorry indeed.

[pickledginger]

You don't see 'the big deal' in a 6 foot 4 man dragging a 2 and 5 year old across the room by their wrists?

Let me help. It's child abuse.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

But this wasn't a friend. This was a FIL and it was HIS HOUSE.

Drama over nothing. Seriously seriously drama over nothing.

I cannot abide children who don't know when to behave and I wouldn't have a friend who played namby pamby pandering parenting.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

So I'm a child abuser.

I don't see the big deal. They were misbehaving - he removed them. Firmly and probably shouted, but he removed them.


Teach them to behave properly and it won't happen the next time.

[Bowlersarm]

I don't see it as a big deal either. Their father was present but chose not to say anything.

Does that make him a child abuser as well pickledginger?

[pickledginger]

If you do that to a 2 year old, yes. That's what SS would say when they got the report from A & E about a dislocated elbow.

[Mumsyblouse]

Yes, it was his house in which a 2 and 4 year old had played nicely all day but had become a bit bickery. So what? Why couldn't he have leant down to the eldest and said 'why don't you come and help me with X while mummy is getting the car ready?' or done what my grandpa would have done and got us a square of chocolate to distract us?

Dragging angry shouty big men and little grandchildren, no no no. He is not their parent. If you are the parent, fine to remove your children or leave a party if you don't like the behaviour of anyone else. Putting your hands on other people's children? this is an obvious no.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

Where in the OP does it say there was a dislocated elbow?

[pickledginger]

'The fact that DH did feck all is a huge issue in itself, tied up in a childhood of command and control from said FIL and the fact that he is scared of his father'

A grown man is scared of him because of his 'parenting'.

[pickledginger]

It doesn't. It's the most common injury in under 5s. It results from pulling them by the wrist.

[TidyDancer]

This is absolutely not drama over nothing. If you feel the parents of the children are doing nothing, the answer is NOT to manhandle the children, hurting them and scaring them in the process.

I wouldn't dream of doing that to a child in my house, and plenty of my friends DCs have misbehaved in my house over the years. It doesn't give me the right to be physically abusive to them.

[Bowlersarm]

Hmmm. My DS has a dislocated elbow. No one seemed interested in following that up, after he had been to a&e

[pickledginger]

Here

[freddiemisagreatshag]

Right.

Social Services might be called for lots of things. But if they DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAPPEN then they won't be.

[Bowlersarm]

Also, slightly irrelevant, he didn't have a dislocated elbow

[pickledginger]

If you told them it happened whilst an adult was dragging them across the room by their wrists whilst they screamed in pain I'm fairly sure they would.

[VinegarDrinker]

But if the DH had intervened before his father lost the plot, there was nothing for him to be terrified of, surely. I still don't get what he was doing while his wife was running around gathering the stuff and his kids were tired, grumpy and misbehaving.

(I write as someone who grew up with a parent who could just flip at any moment. It means I take care to try and pre-empt and avoid that situation developing with my own DS, not just sit on my ares).

[HappySeven]

It's not child abuse, ginger, and his height is irrelevant. By using it the OP is conjuring up a huge man when really all adults are larger and able to overpower a small child. It's emotive.

If your FIL does 'back down' it will be because he wants to keep the peace and continue to see his grandchildren. I'm sure he loves them, maybe he wants to make sure they don't turn out spoilt. Maybe it's worth reading the thread a while ago about the woman who reprimanded her nephews (?) when they were running around a restaurant and the grandmother didn't like to say anything.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

But, small relevant fact, no child actually had their elbow dislocated.

[Chandon]

That was not on, for your FIl.

But you sould have intervened in the bickering stage instead of walking off.

Your DH needs to learn to be a father.

All off you unreasonable, IMO.

So if you know your DH can't parent, then it is up to you. So maybe next time let DH do the packing so you can stay with the kids.

It is hard work parenting a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old, but it has to be done.

[squeakytoy]

It isnt child abuse. It is called taking control of a situation and showing a child who is in charge. He firmly took them by the wrist, he didnt punch them in the face!

[veryberrybug]

definitely agree that you shouldn't go back there, FIL obviously has inability to stop himself from blowing up which is a big risk for small children. he was bang out of order. however, though i feel sorry for your DH being frightened of FIL, i find it worrying that the paralysing fear was stronger than protective instinct as a parent. is this the first time FIL has done something like this & DH not stood up to him? maybe this could be the catalyst for DH to break out of being submissive child, after all he is an adult now.