to think it's not terribly helpful to keep referring to parents who haven't MMR'd as "whack jobs"...

[MsGillis]

..or morons, or unfit parents, or up there with people who drink and drive?

I appreciate that people have very strong feelings around the subject, but I think that we need to understand that there are a significant number of parents who didn't/haven't vaccinated, not because they are crystal waving nutjobs, but because they are actually scared shitless and paralysed into indecision?

Surely there are ways and means to communicate information, and arrogantly shouting about how one person is right and anyone who disagrees is all kinds of nobhead is not going to be conducive in opening up reasonable dialogue?

Under the age where they can make their own, informed decisions the answer is no, WidowWadman. Beyond that, the choice is not mine to make, it's theirs.

The US lottie, has a requirement for all children to be vaccinated in order to attend a public (what UK residents call a state) school. There are exceptions for medical and religious reasons and in some states for philosophical reasons too. Naturally these requirements don't apply if you homeschool or in the case of some fee paying schools.

In other words, is measles actually eracicated in the US?

According to today's paper in the last three years there have been outbreaks of measles in Spain, Italy, France, Ukraine and a number of other European countries which I can't remember. They won't have been influenced by a local Swansea newspaper. I wonder whether the outbreaks are associated with increasing levels of poverty, leading to generally poorer health?

No, there are still outbreaks in the USA, lottie, AFAIK.

For which they blame us pesky Europeans.

I know that vaccination is mandatory for school places in the US but was wondering, thanks.

Also (going off at a tangent slightly) - I am aware that in the US if you don't have a job you are generally very poor especially if you have children. How do these families afford vaccinations for their children to then get school places?

Loving the Game Theory backchat, ladies. You wouldn't get this on NetMums.

Vaccinations are FOC to eligible children through the US public health system.

Oh I see.

LaVolcan - obviously the explanation should be given, rather than just abuse hurled. The message why we need a vaccination rate of over 95% is there though, and repeated over and over again already. It's not the lack of knowledge about herd immunity which stops people from vaccinating, it's a blatant lack of tosses given.

There's plenty antivaxxers and single-vax proponents who say outright they don't think that herd immunity is a good enough reason to vaccinate their child against rubella. And those people I quite happily call antisocial morons.

"According to today's paper in the last three years there have been outbreaks of measles in Spain, Italy, France, Ukraine and a number of other European countries which I can't remember. They won't have been influenced by a local Swansea newspaper. I wonder whether the outbreaks are associated with increasing levels of poverty, leading to generally poorer health?"

Why don't you ask "I wonder what the vaccination rates are over there?" or "I wonder how the media report over there?"

'And those people I quite happily call antisocial morons.'

What do you think that will achieve WidowWadman?

WellcallhimDave
"Under the age where they can make their own, informed decisions the answer is no, WidowWadman. Beyond that, the choice is not mine to make, it's theirs."

What age do you think is old enough to make an informed decision?

lottieandmia - nothing. But since explaining to them about herd immunity doesn't achieve anything either, what is the difference?

I'm not calling for an advertising campaign putting it onto big fat posters, frequent jingles and TV adverts calling them antisocial morons, it's just my opinion, and I doubt they give a toss what little old widowwadman or anyone else thinks.

It seems very odd to me that a number of posters on this thread think that the way to get people to agree with them is to tell them to fuck off, call them morons or nutters or various other expletives and expect people to outline their family situation at home which they are not qualified to comment on -but- -will- -try- -to- -pick- -it- -apart- -anyway-.

I think you will agree that people are never going to agree with you if you just post insults and attacks.

So are you just trying to upset people?

Sorry WidowWadman, apparently I'm an antisocial moron - and if that's the case it would be a shame for me to disappoint and start being sociable now.

Ah, so you don't want to say from what age you would allow your children to have an opinion.

'Is it not ok to feel conflicted about something?'

Apparently not, Raspberry. Unless we accept the official line of the government, which is MMR everyone no matter what, we are all morons apparently. Even those of us who feel that single vaccines would be safer for our particular children but still want to vaccinate.

"Ah, so you don't want to say from what age you would allow your children to have an opinion."

No. It's that I don't want to engage with someone who's rude and abusive, WidowWadman.

I'm not trying to upset anyone lottieandmia, I just find it upsetting that whilst there is an epidemic which puts lots of people at risk, people still choose to not vaccinate, and blame everyone one but themselves, that the vaccine is spreading like wildfire.

I find the stance upsetting that rubella is a mild disease, and it's simply not neccessary if someone else's child is badly damaged.

I find it upsetting when the lie that only people with underlying other health problems would suffer badly and potentially die from these preventable diseases is used as an argument against vaccination. As if people with underlying health issues were not worthy to be protected.

*the disease is spreading like wildfire, not the vaccine, obviously