To think that Game of Thrones (the TV version) is over-rated tosh?

[kalidasa]

I concede that it is strangely compelling, but on the downside: horribly misogynistic, eye-wateringly racist (orientalism anyone?), woodenly acted (with a few honourable exceptions, and the children are good), the scripts are really terrible, every plot twist is heralded practically with trumpets, and the exposition is plodding.

I like the music and the map with cogs at the beginning though.

Am I missing something or are we just meant to classify it as enjoyable rubbish (like "Revenge") and get over it?

Cheerfully expecting to be destroyed on this one but would be nice to know I'm not completely alone.

Yeah, well I'll take her on too...

Representing a misogynist society does not make the show or the story misogynist. It's fantastic! Daenarys is the most kick ass female character, a total survivor, with integrity, dignity and power. And she's only like 14!

yeh, and you get to see her tits at regular intervals too. bonus

plus you get to see her being forcibly married to some kind of neanderthal (that comes round to loving her - sweet), having a semi incestuous relationship with her abusive brother, being raped, consummating her marriage in front of the tribe, all under age. but of course it's OK, because she turns out fiesty in the end. crap.

Shae comes from one of the free cities I think. They speak a different language. GRRM spent time in wester Ross as a child I think, it was inspiration.

Carlajean, the incest is a pivotal part of the story. And the marital rape wasn't written that way in the book, I don't understand why they changed that. In any case, how does her being a survivor of abuse mean she isn't a badass? She's a very strong character.

And the tv series made her 18, so not underage in fact.

They have made all the kids older in the TV series. I must admit I was made uncomfortable by the underage sex in the book.

But girls did used to get married at 12. I too thought "If it's fantasy, why not set it in a more equal society" at first. But having thought about it more, what makes it come to life is the closeness to a lot of historical events - Wars of the Roses in particular.

I watched one episode and couldn't watch anymore.I thought it was glorifying misogyny and rape. Any programme that depicts rape needs to interrogate why it's doing as it often seems to be an excuse for nasty titillation.

thank you winters night that was what I was tree trying to say. why not be original and have a strong female character that hasn't been abused, but hey, then you wouldn't have any nasty titillation would you?

tree trying sorry, trying

But there are plenty of strong female characters in GoT who haven't been abused.

Winters - I agree. The Sopranos had a rape scene which depicted nothing but an act of violence.

We have also enjoyed Breaking Bad

I watched one and a half episodes, I had to pause so many times to snigger at DH at how silly the acting was when you added in my pausing to comment on how obvious and badly written it all was, it was taking us too long and it just left me feeling slightly irate and patronised. Also the sexism.

Why on earth are you continuing OP? There are better ways to spend your evenings!

Exactly Ubik. Rape is violence. It's not an act involving a pretty young woman with her breasts bouncing round and a few photogenic tears.

In grrm's defense, that scene is not a rape scene in the book and is in fact really lovely.... It was the first time we saw Drogo as a caring human being.

In fact I think that was the moment I turned against the show, they took a lovely scene and turned it into rape

As for Judd Apatow - I was rather meh about Bridesmaids. I loved Girls-that's really worth seeking out as it depicts the naive and entitled twenty something's perfectly. Freaks and Geeks is entertaining but we are also on last season of Curb Your Enthusism which is in a different league.

The scene with Dany/Drogo was filmed exactly as it is in the book. Not a rape scene there or in the TV programme. People are projecting their own views onto it.

Dany isn't the only strong female character, there is Catelyn, Cersei, Sansa, Arya, Asha, Osha, Ygritte, Brienne, Arianne, Obara, Nymeria, Tyene, Margery...off the top of my head.

And far worse happens to some of the male characters .

The Sopranos had a rape scene which depicted nothing but an act of violence

Are you talking about the spit-roasting scene ubik?

I found that really upsetting, but to me it showed that Tony and his cronies were vile sub-humans. Just like the bouncer charging the women a blow job to enter the room where they could earn more money and get spit-roasted.

I know lots of people find Tony Soprano to be an anti-hero and lots of women fancy him, but I can't legislate for people who are hard of thinking.

That act of casual violence and humilation, followed by worse, made it obvious to me that you should despise this person. If people interpreted it differently, like I said, you can't legislate for taste.

I was actually thinking of the scene when his therapist is raped - it was quick, violent and shocking.

But yes the spit roasting scene too- the writers were fond of making you like Tony and his cronies and then showing you the brutality of their world. I think the writing had integrity not evident in GofT ( although it's a different genre, different values perhaps)

Not sure I'd count sansa as a strong character, filly

I didn't really see the scene between Danny and Drogo as a rape scene either. More like they were just sealing the deal they had signed up to.

I would love to be able to watch a full episode but I find it too violent. The music is very good and the original version with just the human voice and harp is brilliant.

Breaking Bad is phenomenal,