to hope the government has the guts to tax WEALTHY pensioners more

[ReallyTired]

The Fabian society has suggested that wealthy pensioners pay more tax.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345

Some how I can't see a conservative wanting to tax wealthy pensioners more when they all vote Tory.

I find it unfair that pensioners with an income more the average family's income get free bus buses, winter fuel allowance, TV licence as well as paying less tax and national insurance. It is about time that the the wealthy pensioners took their share of the pain of the cuts.

I am in favour of well off pensioners having free bus passes, winter fuel allowance as these things encourage independence and improve health. I would like to see the money for these things clawed back by WEALTHY pensioners paying more income tax.

Perhaps but what does the £26k cap include? For me its the 'well if you have 4 children all of different ages and sexes you will be 'entitled' to x number of bedrooms.' Where has that come from?

I never understood that, nice to have, of course it is, privacy, space, options etc but surely we cannot continue to offer this?

So how many wealthy pensioners are there?

Not that many according to This is Money:-

The changes will come into force in 2014/15 and are expected to bring thousands more well-off savers into tax on their pension contributions, generating an extra £1 billion in tax by 2016/17.

The Treasury has said 160,000 people a year would be caught by the decision to cap annual tax relief at £40,000, while some 340,000 workers will be affected by the lifetime allowance changing to £1.25 million.
Mr Osborne said: 'Ninety-nine per cent of the population make annual contributions of less than £40,000, with the average contribution just £6,000 a year.

Read more: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2243348/AUTUMN-STATEMENT-Tax-relief-cut-pensions.html#ixzz2RD5PzWrG
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Forgot the heading

Wealthy savers hit as Osborne cuts annual limit for tax relief on pensions to £40k while lifetime limit reduced to £1.25m

Read more: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2243348/AUTUMN-STATEMENT-Tax-relief-cut-pensions.html#ixzz2RD69lRfJ
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I thought that the reason why there isn't capped according to income is because it would actually cost more to check all income for all pensioners than it would bring money to have everything capped.

Also, all the things the Op is talking about aren't taxes. They are allowances given to people with particular profiles and it happens to be being retired that is the common link. Little to do with taxing as such.

Re taxes... it's simple they don't pay the NI because none of what they receive is taxable with NI. A lot of the pension (apart from state pension which isn't a lot anyway) is done through investments and shares which are not taxable. But then they aren't taxable to NI for everyone not just pensioners.

I do agree though that the reason why you save money should be for 'rainy days' and your retirement. Which means that when you are retired, you should use that money if you want more than what the state pension can give you. There is no reason why pensioners should have their savings 'rpotected'.

Piglet but you don't pay tax on pension contributions hence wealthy people favouring stuffing money away into pensions.Not all workers could afford to do that.

If we all lived in times that enabled us to live off one income with a low mortgage,CB,no uni fees or living expenses to think of and had a generous non frozen salary etc I'm sure we'd all do the same.

If they're going to get rid of perks pensioners had like CB and keep benefits wealthy pensioners don't need perhaps they'd like to cut tax so we could stuff money into pensions and private health cover seeing as we won't get a state pension or have an NHS which we're paying for today (the biggest bill being the elderly).

Really fed up with this we're all right Jack attitude you get from wealthy pensioners who couldn't give a stuff re the dreadful pensionable years their descendants are going to have.They don't even want to let us prepare for it no it's you keep paying shed loads of tax so we keep perks we don't need and an NHS you won't have whilst we continuously shaft the youngsters of the country.

Personally I think as the biggest bill to the NHS is the elderly and because as a country we can no longer support it and because we won't have it when we're old wealthy pensioners should dip into their pockets more.

It's ridiculous to keep one section of society in pound seats whilst clobbering the rest.Madness.

^Squarepebbles Mon 22-Apr-13 17:34:36

Piglet but you don't pay tax on pension contributions hence wealthy people favouring stuffing money away into pensions.Not all workers could afford to do that.^

you pay tax when you draw your pension not when you contribute to your pension. otherwise you would pay tax twice.

Pebbles, sort of agree with you, in a way. HOWEVER This will just not happen. Not particularly because "all pensioners vote Tory". Clearly, they don't. To even say it is unbelievably patronising and ageist. What you can say, I think, is that pensioners are much more likely to vote -for whichever party. And this will get much,much more sharply defined, as things get worse and worse. Young people will see that there is no incentive to vote - nothing in it for them. The grey vote,as the population ages,will become more and more powerful. Any government, of whatever political persuasion,will not be willing to offend them. I genuinely see trouble ahead,with such a sharp divide between the older "haves" and younger "have nots"

squarepebbles I think it's you who has your history wrong

most people who lived as adults in the war are dead,their children are the baby boomers who have had it easy

Pensioners who were children during the war are not baby boomers. BB's were born between 1947 and 1964.

they took advantage of the housing boom which is the reason our dc won't be able to buy

they didn't cause it, and it's only really rocketed in the last 19 years

living was so cheap most families got by on one income

Um, living wasn't cheap. Food was horribly expensive and there wasn't much of it. No supermarket deals like we have now. Clothes also really expensive, so people didn't have many, and no supermarket cheapies either. There were no "things" to waste your money on. Most people didn't have a car, or a phone. There was no internet, no videos. Holidays - if you were lucky - were camping or a Guest House, and most families couldn't afford that. You didn't replace your furniture. There was no CH or double glazing. You could only spend what you had because a loan had to be authorised by the bank manager - after an interview. Most people didn't have credit cards. People didn't eat out, or go to Alton Towers or any of the things we think are essential.

they got CB

Not for the first child

they didn't have to help dc with uni

In our grammar school with a 360 pupil cohort, only 4 went to University, and another 16 went to polytechnic. It wasn't an option for most of us who left school at 16 and went out to work.

Things -it is interesting in that pensioners do vote - much more than any other group of people. And I also understand that on a rainy day the Tories do better vote wise. Are people just not that bothered?

Surely we should ALL be using our vote, some on this forum say they dont vote - well stop complaining then! I always always vote - otherwise what is the point. And older people dont necessarily vote Tory, look at all the ex miners, and my DM wouldnt dream of voting Tory!

I do agree - our expectations are far higher now than when I was growing up. We didnt have a car living in London, there were no mobile phones or the latest trainers. Sky TV wasnt around. And there were also less single parents or kids having kids.

Absolutely, Handcream, my very comfotably off pensioner parents would sooner chew their own arms off than vote Tory. What they do have, after seeing very many different governments, is a very finely tuned bullshit detector. They realise that in the grand scheme of things,free bus travel and a winter fuel payment,if taken away, would save the square root of feck all. They, and I, are watching the increasing scapegoating of the elderly with unease.

Give or take a few years it doesn't make much odds.Those that struggled were the adults who lived through the war not those born after.

The lifestyle you describe errr is reality for most families today. Think many people are clueless as to modern day reality for families.

My parents ate waaaay more meat as children than we do and had better holidays(my grandad was in service so not rich). My dp has an equivalent job to that my dad had in the 70s and 80s,my mother never needed to work,never had to watch heating,foreign holidays(we camp), expensive house in Home Counties(an area we old never live in on one salary),fantastic food(meat every day,we have 1 chicken a week) ,full CB worth 50k on 3 kids(we'll have zilch eventually)both kids in uni fully paid for including grant,new car(we have an old banger) etc,etc,etc.

When I go back to work really my entire salary should go on extra pension contributions,private health cover and uni savings for the dc,can't see that happening somehow.

Oh and the only people I know who can afford Sky are my bloody parents,kids get very excited when they stay.

Im looking at the guardian chart, the Govt will spend c £720 bn in 2013 and receive c £612 bn, so has to borrow the c £108bn rest.

It spends about 1/3rd on Welfare overall, about 20% on Health, about 15% on Education, and about 7% on paying interest. That is about 75%. Defence is about 5% pa, so even if Britain had no military it would save a drop in the ocean. So obviously welfare will have to be reduced.

Next step is to look at who gets the Welfare, well the bulk is pensions for the elderly (ditto Health spend). So we are where we are today.

"Oh and the only people I know who can afford Sky are my bloody parents"

You clearly don't live on my council estate,matey. Serried ranks of dishes......

See - only the pensioners and slivers can afford Sky. the Daily Mail is right :D

Along with P.green and his mates, and cancels that sub they chipped into build which cost in excess of 1 billion pounds and asks the Thatcher family to pay to bury their mother and and and ....fucking pensioners , no good to anyone ,taking up vital resources that young people could be doing with .......esp. rich ?pensioners .resisting urge to add a couple ,at least of these marks >>>!!!!!< those ones

*Skivers

My exFIL's public sector pension is £37k a year, since the age of 58.

Sky is rife everywhere....

My parents ate waaaay more meat as children than we do and had better holidays

• however air travel has increase massively in the last few decades, so clearly your experience is not universal

• [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/datablog/2009/sep/02/meat-consumption-per-capita-climate-change]] this table also show average meat consumption has increased in the UK since the 1960s

so while I don't doubt what you say personally, the UK as a whole have experienced the opposite.

both trends relate to increasing affluence.

Blardy hell,if you'd paid off your pension you'd be loaded.

Squarepebbles i'm surprised at the lifestyle you describe and say not rich as its a contrast to mine and my parents. Most clothes were hand made to save money. My father worked two jobs to make ends meet till my mum went back to work. We didn't get foreign holidays but we did have a caravan. Half our garden was fruit and veg to save money too. I hear someone i know grumble about money and i silently laugh, they don't need 3 foreign holidays a year or the excessively big house or private school and healthcare, they choose it then complain they have nothing left to live on. Life is about priorities, i choose not to spend now so i have some tomorrow but if its going to be taken off me why should i

Lazyjaney - you associate council estates with skivers.....??

Do you work for the DM ?