to hope the government has the guts to tax WEALTHY pensioners more

[ReallyTired]

The Fabian society has suggested that wealthy pensioners pay more tax.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345

Some how I can't see a conservative wanting to tax wealthy pensioners more when they all vote Tory.

I find it unfair that pensioners with an income more the average family's income get free bus buses, winter fuel allowance, TV licence as well as paying less tax and national insurance. It is about time that the the wealthy pensioners took their share of the pain of the cuts.

I am in favour of well off pensioners having free bus passes, winter fuel allowance as these things encourage independence and improve health. I would like to see the money for these things clawed back by WEALTHY pensioners paying more income tax.

We do indeed pay tax on everything above our personal allowance so although it comes off my TP it amounts to a substantial amount of the OAP as does dh's.We pay tax at exactly the same rate as everyone else [that was to reallytired].I have already said we don't need the added perks like WFA and the tv licence [which we get because dh is over 75].As for the bus passes-we have never used them.£50k is more than dh or I have ever earned at any point of our working lives. If dh dies before me my monthly income will be around £900 net.I don't know whether I would also get a widow's pension linked to his pension.

faster, we would if we weren't paying more into pensions. Personally, I'd rather have the money now to buy a house, but that's clearly not what the government want us to do or they wouldn't be implementing policies with disincentives to work harder.

Whilst families are having to take kids out of school and move.

Square if you go back to work the state won't pay your childcare as your joint income is too high. You will still only get the free part time term time you'd get now.

Agree jacks, but I can't help wondering how cost effective the CB thing will be in the long run if families decide it's not worth earning more than 50k.

jacks, they are now offering tax breaks for child care where both parents work. They can earn up to 300k between them and still qualify for this. It's coming in from 2015 I believe.

Sorry, I am losing track of this. The people who are feeling I think they have lost out are the SAHM's with partners earning between £50-£60k per year.

Perhaps the childminders and nurseries feel they have lost out having not had to look after your children...

For some people £50k is a fortune. Often double what they are earning themselves so for those people its a lot of money and you can afford to lose CB. It does depend who you are looking at and what their own personal circumstances are...

Square - why would the state pay your childcare costs?

And for 3 kids that wouldn't be a small amount.

ihate - i understand that.

what i dont understand is why anyone would complain about how unfair it was they has lost CB, when they hadnt actually lost child benefit.

Plenty of families earn joint less than 50k and have more in their pocket.CB and 2 x tax breaks adds up.

Ihate would rather be able to save for a house.

And not all families with 2 or king parents use childcare,many don't even need it and others use families or juggle shifts so basically are a lot better off than a family on one income the same.

Pensioners are also still paying tax as well - so the money they earnt before they saved it into a pension was taxed and now it's taxed again as it gets paid out. My DM has to pay tax for getting in total £185 a week. She is not a wealthy pensioner yet still has to pay tax. She's 61 so is actually only receiving a pension of her own and a bereavement allowance that will end in a few weeks' time. She doesn't have a bus pass and doesn't get winter fuel allowance yet or a free tv licence. She cannot claim her state pension until she is almost 62 (some ridiculous calculation that affects women born between 1950 and 1953) so soon she will have just £80 a week to live off and she pays full council tax because my brother lives with her although he doesn't earn very much to help out financially - her council tax for a 2 bed bungalow is £146 a year. Personally I feel that any government would consider her an easy target and a wealthy pensioner should they decide to tax more than they already do. I know that the op probably means pensioners who live in beautiful large homes and take 2 cruises a year and not really pensioners like my DM - but the problem is that those in government don't have any common sense and so if they did start taxing pensioners more it would hit those on lower incomes as well as those who can afford to take 2 cruises a year - I also do feel that pensioners have worked a lifetime and paid tax and NI so it is unfair to charge them more for having been good at saving for their future.

Square so does childcare and you save that by not working, they have more in tax breaks but also more in expenses too

Faster, because the incentives to earn above 50k are now gone for us, as we will lose CB. We can save into a pension, but we can't buy our first home. It just seems like a huge disincentive to me.

Square if you do childcare by juggling shifts then one often works at night so when do they sleep?

Jacks all my friends work part me and none pay childcare.

Some have children old enough to wait an hour at home after getting the bus,one do shifts,one have friends and some have family.

Not sure but they do.Think they do alternate days and sleep during school hours.

Sorry some.

handcream, you're saying 50k is a fortune again. However, you don't seem to think this about pensioners. How is it a fortune for one and not the other. It just seems that families on 50k are told they are bloody lucky and should just get on with it, while pensioners on 50k have worked hard and deserve it. I'm not saying they haven't by the way. Just feel like the argument is being twisted to suit the demographic we are bashing here, which feels like the SAHM who's dh earns between 50 and 60k.

So we are not talking young children but secondary school age. Can't see me leaving my 18 month old alone, i don't have family close because we've moved around for work so did my siblings.

Exactly Ihate.

Ihategeorge the only pensioner i know on over 50k worked in the private sector not public so his pension other than state isn't paid by the government. He pays exactly the same tax as a working person on the same income.

Jacks most of my friends are primary but yes parents of older kids have no childcare costs.My neighbours kids only wait an hour by the time they get home.

The then and now comparisons are never very easy to do. Things were worse in the past (WWII, rationing, no central heating and I remember paying 12% interest on mortgage) and some were easier. It is not a simple comparison that today's pensioners had a wonderful life. Plenty were evacuated in the war or fighting in it, then much deprivation in the 50s.

The 70s was dreadful,60% inflation over 3 years, 3 day week, up to 99% tax etc) I remember the 1982 recession when a whole generation of graduates almost never got any good jobs at all and then the 199os property crash with negative equity when we had borrowings of 5x salary. IT was not a heap of fun then. We certainly need two salaries for the mortgage on our first house we certainly needed two salaries for. Those houses cost £275k today (outer London) - no question of living anywhere more central. In the first year or two we each paid 50% of our net pay on full time childcare. Not much maternity leave - I took 2 weeks before going back full time. No state help with childcare of any kind at all. No tax credits.

ihate, on feminist grounds that would be better too. Pity so many women marry sexist men and endure unfairness at home.

(Many children are muchj better off with mothers at work. It is by no means a universal view that babies need mothers at home with them)