to hope the government has the guts to tax WEALTHY pensioners more

[ReallyTired]

The Fabian society has suggested that wealthy pensioners pay more tax.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345

Some how I can't see a conservative wanting to tax wealthy pensioners more when they all vote Tory.

I find it unfair that pensioners with an income more the average family's income get free bus buses, winter fuel allowance, TV licence as well as paying less tax and national insurance. It is about time that the the wealthy pensioners took their share of the pain of the cuts.

I am in favour of well off pensioners having free bus passes, winter fuel allowance as these things encourage independence and improve health. I would like to see the money for these things clawed back by WEALTHY pensioners paying more income tax.

I don't have a dishwasher(they do ),they put in their own central heating.His job wasn't that well paid(electrician) but he got a gold plated final salary pension along with 2 state,the benefit of years of CB.

The fact is they don't need benefits and have a lot more disposable income than us and countless others so should be part of paying off the debt.

Morebeta that only works if you can guarantee a job to everyone who wants one and guarantee people won't settle for what they have.

Faster he's not going to have to make up the living expenses shortfall.My dc won't get max loans.They will have to work but going by friends it's not enough.I'm presuming they'll get enough loans for fees.

you cannot afford a dishwasher on >52k per year.

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Income is taxed, whether pension or interest from savings or profit from shares (unless in isa) so all these wealthy pensioners are paying tax. The bigger your income the more you pay.

What could be tweaked is the level at which you pay different rates of tax. Which is fine, then everyone pays their whack.

I wouldn't be surprised if free bus passes were introduced to encourage use of bus services through the day rather than any great sop to pensioners. And the winter fuel allowance a sop after a severe winter (and many elderly deaths) to avoid putting up the state pension.

Nope.

Not particularly bothered though,never had one or a microwave.

Square your dc will get full loans. They can apply without parental income taken into account. Tuition fees are automatically paid by loan irrespective of income

Morebeta So to go back to the OP we wouldn't tax wealthy pensioners anymore than any other member of society we would tax all the same, and if you come from an area where there is no work, either you get on your bike and find it or you're stuck with it.

I'm not sure whether that is communist or capitalist. Still you will then have an increasing wealth gap between the haves and have nots, and there is already enough problems without making the politics of envy standard fare.

We've been told re living expense loans there is a cut off re what they can borrow linked to parental income and the threshold is v low???Loads of parents I know slightly nervous.

I'll happily be put right if that is wrong.

We don't have a dish washer either. My dh earns around the same as square. We rent our house as can't afford to buy now where we live. It doesn't have a dish washer as the kitchen is tiny and there is no where to put one. Not everyone has a dish washer.

Bobby it's not the politics of envy but politics of fairness and politics of not wasting money.

I actually like morebeta's idea. It's like a citizens wage. Everyone gets the same regardless and people who want more will earn more. There would be no disincentives to working. No benefit traps.

You can apply for the living expense loan without parental income being taken into account on the new system. I only found out by chance because they didn't accept mine due to some missing evidence. Personally i think the current system is unworkable because everything is paid up front then repaid at a later date so that's more money for the government to find.

This is an interesting debate (although some posters come across as very grasping and bitter). I am a pensioner and probably alone amongst my peers who thinks that universal perks for pensioners are unfair. We are comfortably off (thanks to working our socks off, saving, and reasonable pension provision). I do not think we should get WFA or free travel (though I understand the arguments about costs of means testing. This government is phasing out the age related tax allowance (a good thing, though received with howls of anguish from the left and lobby groups). Why should anyone receive anything extra from the state purely because of their age? We already get the state pension and pension credit for poorer pensioners. It would be better to make WFA and free travel available to those qualifying for pension credit only (no extra cost). Those just above the level of PC could apply on a means tested basis. Or they could abolish both and increase PC levels.

However, there is no justification for taxing pensioners more than other people. Once the tax allowances are equalised (in a couple of years) the elderly will pay the same tax on income as everyone else. At present you only get the extra allowance anyway if you are below a fairly low income threshold.

Square - £20k PER YEAR on just holidays! He must have been very very senior to enable them to spend that sort of amount and also allow them to just have one person working!

You sound very envious of this.... Perhaps you see the inheirtance disappearing. My PIL's are spending (both ex doctors from the NHS, so retired at 60 with final salary pensions) but nothing like £20k on holidays. Are you sure you arent just over egging the figures (just a little....).

I'm sure I read somewhere that 4 in 10 graduates aren't repaying their student loans anyway. Not sure how much that will cost the government. If you move abroad, how will they ever make you pay it back?

Really Jack,are you sure? So basically they can borrow whatever they need.I'm presuming there is a ceiling,is it sensible ie not 1 tin of beans a week?

Ihate we got told that they're not that small £200 a month which would have an impact on saving or paying for a mortgag.

I'm not too worried about the tuition fees tbh. My oldest dc is 9, so still a few years away for us at the moment. A lot can happen in 9 years. Also, there is always the option of studying over seas. I'm guessing more employers will bring in good apprenticeships and training schemes for those who don't want the burden of huge loans to pay back.

If you move abroad you don't have to because its reclaimed via tax so if you don't pay UK tax you don't repay student loans. My daughter went last September so first year to use this system when you actually going into it all its not as bad as its been made to sound but i think long term its going to be too costly and is like many things relying on wages increasing significantly.

Square - electricians are not normally in the sort of salary bracket that allows them to have a partner staying at home and upon retirement then spend £20k per year on hols. Maybe he owned his own company and employed people. Why are you so resentful of them?

Sounds a little made up to make your point which is that you are miffed that you arent being paid to stay at home...

I can't remember the exact figure but i think about £5000 my daughter budgets £50 a week

Oh get over yourself with the envy/ bitter thing hand.

I don't expect to inherit anything,anything we get will have to go to the dc unless we want them living with us until we retire.

I just think it's wrong that people with that kind of disposable income get benefits and aren't contributing to reducing the debt whilst families continuously get clobbered.

Oh and he wasn't senior,kind of middle.

Nope he worked for the National Grid I think.

Jack that sounds reasonable,does it include rent/utility?

sorry but you do sound envious/bitter.

why mention free uni in relation to your FIL if he didnt even have the chance to go?