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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to hope the government has the guts to tax WEALTHY pensioners more

953 replies

ReallyTired · 22/04/2013 09:12

The Fabian society has suggested that wealthy pensioners pay more tax.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345

Some how I can't see a conservative wanting to tax wealthy pensioners more when they all vote Tory.

I find it unfair that pensioners with an income more the average family's income get free bus buses, winter fuel allowance, TV licence as well as paying less tax and national insurance. It is about time that the the wealthy pensioners took their share of the pain of the cuts.

I am in favour of well off pensioners having free bus passes, winter fuel allowance as these things encourage independence and improve health. I would like to see the money for these things clawed back by WEALTHY pensioners paying more income tax.

OP posts:
handcream · 23/04/2013 17:45

I do think that the child benefit for 2 children from say 2015 (excluding multiple births) could be a bit of a vote winner.

If you have no means of supporting yourself, have married yourself to the state and have no partner then why on earth would you want to have more than 2. Most working families decide their lifestyle and how many children they want.

FasterStronger · 23/04/2013 17:46

actually I would not mind paying an extra inheritance tax for my free degree.

schobe · 23/04/2013 17:48

it wasn't hard in the same way that people are struggling now

Omg people have short memories when it suits them. What a bizarre statement to make when we're talking about a generation who were brought up in post-war austerity.

I think some might be shocked to know what tax is paid by a comfortably off pensioner who has worked and paid taxes all their lives. I'm sure that there are many who would rather be young, fit and strong enough to work still.

handcream · 23/04/2013 17:55

I do get jealous I admit seeing what ages my PIL's and parents retired at.

They are living long and healthy lives, they werent expected to hence the pensions they have now but with all the medical advances people ARE living longer than we ever thought.

But to say they arent contributing, well of course they are, they are spending in shops, paying VAT, paying tax on their savings etc, even spending on holidays (they are allowed to go on them too!)

These people who are wanting them to fund their choice to stay at home. What are they contributing tax wise. And please dont say I have been working full time since 13.....

janey68 · 23/04/2013 17:56

Schobe - I think you've hit the nail on the head. Some people just can't get their head around the fact that every generation has advantages and disadvantages. Yes, I'm quite happy to hold my hands up and admit that me and dh found it easier to buy a house than my children will. On the other hand, my children will get the advantages of a year off in maternity leave or split parental leave between them and their spouse- which seems unbelievable to me with my 3 months off (and dh with his one day)
My parents lived on one income- but it was frugal and my mum would no doubt have been a lot more fulfilled if she'd had a decent career rather than a menial little part time job when we got to secondary school.

The problem seems to be with people who want to cherry pick all the best bits from every generation without any of the downsides which went with it. Yeap, life would be great if we could all rewrite the rules to suit our own particular circumstances at any particular point in life. Entitlement much?!

JustinBsMum · 23/04/2013 17:56

That's an interesting suggestion FasterStronger.

handcream · 23/04/2013 18:01

I have a relative who cherry picks everyone else's lives and is definitely a glass half empty person. Some people just dont see it. They take their 1 year maternity leave for granted and then take it a step further and moan about not being paid to stay a home (funded by the pensioners!)

My DF when I was growing up had to fill in the family tax return on behalf of my DM. She never did know what he earned.... They are divorced now. We would laugh at this sort of set up now....

thegreylady · 23/04/2013 18:10

I had two cildren [squarepebbles 12:18:55] and my dh had three.I was widowed at 42 and dh's ex left the 3 dc with him when she left him for a younger man in 1985.
We put together a family of 5 young teenagers who we regard as 'ours'. Dh and I will have been married for 25 years in December.
You say many people nowadays can' afford a second child...maybe.

FasterStronger · 23/04/2013 18:22

JustinB - the idea of getting a bill for my degree now seems unfair but also I don't actually mind paying for it. I benefited from a great education at school and uni and I will always be thankful for it.

handcream · 23/04/2013 18:26

Having a degree and putting off work for a few years would I presume allow you access to the more well paid jobs (you know those ones that paid more in tax....!)

And taxes as others have said were not always as low as they are now.

handcream · 23/04/2013 18:35

I would have loved to go to uni but the school I attended didnt inspire, in fact if you got 5 o'levels you did very well. There were no expectations, however I did ok but I didnt want that sort of school for my sons so we stopped at two children and went private.

I never thought of being a SAHM really because we just couldnt afford what we wanted without me working full time.

I have no regrets and am now trying to plan for retirement but the buggers keeping changing the dates!

I remember the golden years of employment 10 years ago. Now, someone leaves the company and you just end up covering their work. Someone else goes on maternity leave and again - there is no cover. The existing team just manage - FOR ONE YEAR! Notice lots of roles in the local paper for local authority cover for maternity leave though....

Hugglepuff · 23/04/2013 18:47

YABU they have already paid tax and national insurance throughout their working lives. They have also put money aside for their pensions - why should they be penalised for saving for their old age ?

Viviennemary · 23/04/2013 19:42

I really can't see this pensioners have it great scenario. Example

Person on pension - App £5,500 a year state plus say private pension of £10,000 pays tax.

Person on benefit can collect £26,000 tax free. I think they should tax benefit before they tax older people.

LittleBearPad · 23/04/2013 19:44

Please can people stop saying pensioners fought in the war. The vast majority of them didn't. You'd need to be 86 to have briefly served in 1945.

Let pensioners have the same tax regime as the rest of us, their personal allowance is moving in line with working people's, scrap the WFA and similar benefits and means test them.

There is no means for wealthy pensioners to disclaim their WFA - there was a campaign (think Helen Mirren was involved) whereby certain famous celebs gave their WFA to charity because they couldn't return it to the treasury.

National Insurance is a busted flush - it doesn't raise enough for the Nhs or pensions. It should be scrapped and rolled into income tax.

FasterStronger · 23/04/2013 19:57

Please can people stop saying pensioners fought in the war.

No, I wont thanks.

my DF did not fight in the war - he was born near its end. however my GF did and he was damaged by it so he DF felt the full impact of his war trauma.

which obv was not even recognised then.

lots of other people were evacuated as children. and...

what do you think being a child is like in a country at war?

FasterStronger · 23/04/2013 19:58

so will people please stop pretending it was easier in the past? you just look silly Grin

LineRunner · 23/04/2013 20:06

My DF is in his 80s and even he was just too young to fight in WW2.

Anyway the issue surely is with 'pensioners' of 60 on decent incomes who still get their Brucie Bonuses of free bus passes etc.

Lazyjaney · 23/04/2013 20:11

The Baby Boomers are the main group enjoying an unsustainable pension largesse. By definition they did not fight in WW2. They lived through the largest boom and rise in living standards in human history. They are now, as a cohort group, enjoying a lifestyle that the current working population largely has to fund and will never enjoy themselves.

That won't fly for much longer.

As someone said earlier, this thread is full of what should happen, in an ethically ideal and fair world, but it wills these ends without taking into account there are no means - that it's not affordable and at some point those paying for it will refuse to.

LittleBearPad · 23/04/2013 20:30

I'm sorry but pensioners don't deserve a free bus pass because they grew up in WW2. I doubt the one will make up for the other.

I didn't suggest additional taxes on pensioners, just equal treatment with those of working age.

LittleBearPad · 23/04/2013 20:34

Also Faster Stronger what do you think being a child growing up in temporary accommodation because there are no council flats/houses suitable for your family is like. This is one of the consequences of council accommodation being under occupied. The bedroom tax doesn't apply to pensioners.

yetanotherworry · 23/04/2013 20:35

There are other benefits to the free bus pass - it also encourages pensioners not to drive which is good for society as a whole. I agree that the WFA should be scrapped and just added to pension credit though.

janey68 · 23/04/2013 20:36

I think the fighting in the war thing is a red herring because there aren't many surviving people who fought in the war and before long there won't be any. It's not about being 'owed' something because of the war. It's about treating people in a fair and reasonable way. Personally I don't have a huge issue with means testing for bus passes and fuel allowance, but as others have said, if that will cost the tax payer more than making blanket payments then whats the point? As for taxes, well, pensioners are taxed. If they receive a decent pension it's because they ^worked* for it. There is just so much pensioner envy on this thread from a minority- it beggars belief

Portofino · 23/04/2013 20:44

There was still evacuation and National Service if you were too young to fight in the war.

LineRunner · 23/04/2013 20:50

My local paper ran an article once about 60 year olds complaining that their free bus passes were 'useless' to them because they couldn't use them before 9.30am and so couldn't get to work for free.

bassetfeet · 23/04/2013 20:51

This is an awful thread . Do you think all us baby boomers are rolling in money? Seriously ?
We live on Dhs State pension with small private extra. About £14,000 pa.
Most of our savings went on tuition fees and uni help for two sons .....and all that loving parents do for their children to help set out re work and homes . Happily because we know how hard it is for young today .
We live very very frugally and the heating allowance is a godsend .

Some of you are very shortsighted re how you will feel in the future and seem almost spiteful towards those of us older who help your generation as best as we can .

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