Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think the law should be able to do more about this dog??

304 replies

curiousgeorgie · 21/04/2013 21:35

Walking in the park today with my DH, 2.5 year old DD & dog, and DD walking in front of us (a very late walker, so very slow and can't run yet), suddenly a mastiff (we think) runs from the trees straight to DD and before we can get there literally steps away, my dog is between them.

It was so so quick but this dog was going for my child, and subsequently absolutely savaged my dog, I grabbed DD, was screaming for the owner and DH was trying to separate this dog from our dog (who is a small friendly breed and was pinned down, yelping, it was awful.)

The owners appeared and pulled the dog off after a few horrible minutes, and argued with us that the dog wasn't dangerous, and the woman got completely in my face and threatened me (while 30 weeks pregnant holding my sobbing DD) so we quickly left.

I called the local police from the car and was told there wasn't anything they can do about the dog as it didn't attack a human. (thank god though.)

But the fact remains, that a dangerous dog is allowed to remain in the park on a sunny weekend day where surely there'll be lots of children??

I'm so so angry and upset about this, my DD is really not herself and my poor dog left with bite injuries to his mouth, ears, face and neck.

Just because this dog didn't quite manage to bite my DD nothing can be done?? AIBU?

OP posts:
KansasCityOctopus · 22/04/2013 12:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CheeseStrawWars · 22/04/2013 12:23

OP, there should be more legal recourse for you on the grounds of the animal being out of control, see here: www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

It?s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control:
in a public place

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if:
it injures someone?s animal
the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

You can be fined up to £5,000 and/or sent to prison for up to 6 months if your dog is out of control. You may also not be allowed to own a dog in the future.

TerraNotSoFirma · 22/04/2013 12:24

kansas that's it in a nutshell

Booboostoo · 22/04/2013 12:25

Do give the dog warden a call. He may wellknow the mastiff from previous complains, but even if he doesn't, it's good to have a record of problem dogs to look out for.

Doodledumdums · 22/04/2013 12:25

Softlysoftly makes a very good point!

YNK · 22/04/2013 12:26

No Ss.

KCO if you are happy to make choices based on how you THINK things SHOULD be - fill your boots!

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 12:27

YNK - please tell me how my choices at the park were any different than your own?

OP posts:
KansasCityOctopus · 22/04/2013 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

D0oinMeCleanin · 22/04/2013 12:31

And then you will probably be bitten and will be no better than the owners KCO.

Report it, fine, kick it and you're just asking for trouble from the dog and/or owner.

You made some good points in your previous replies to YNK, but that last one simply lowers you down to her level.

Thisisaeuphemism · 22/04/2013 12:33

Oh ynk has provided a fascinated insight into the mind of all those people who let their aggressive dogs roam free- it's because children and families shouldn't even be in the parks or woods- they are dog spaces- children can piss off elsewhere.

34DD · 22/04/2013 12:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

50shadesofbrown · 22/04/2013 12:33

It shouldn't matter if you think your dog is good natured or not. Other people don't know your dog & can't make a confident judgement on your dog. Would you suggest people wait until an unknown dog actually demonstrates it's intention by licking or biting people. I suppose at least then the intention would be obvious & you wouldn't be able to complain about irresponsible parents thoughtlessly being near your lovely gentle dog.

What better choices are there, given that in the UK, all public parks are for the use of dog owners as well as parents & everyone else. I will be most interested in your response to Doodledumdums question.

LessMissAbs · 22/04/2013 12:37

KittensoftPuppydog Please remember that dogs need to run free and behave like dogs. It seems to me that there are many places where dogs are not allowed or must be kept on leads. The few places where dogs can still run free should be protected

That's because so many people who own dogs also want the convenience of living in towns and cities. I wouldn't dream of keeping a horse in a place where I couldn't give him proper exercise, either in a field or by riding, because it suited me. Hence, along with many horse owners, I arrange him to be kept somewhere that provides both, although it means I have to travel further and costs me more. And I'm working towards buying a place with my own land for them one day.

Likewise, there are people who have dogs who have things such as large gardens and access to open areas of countryside without lots of people.

Why have big dogs if their only exercise is going to be in an urban park full of children?

miemohrs · 22/04/2013 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

D0oinMeCleanin · 22/04/2013 12:48

Yes, if one is actually attacking you, fair enough, although it is likely to just make it worse, I'm not sure what else you could do, but kicking one just for coming up to you? Why? What would that achieve other than potentially provoking the dog and/or owner?

You certainly wouldn't be in any position to make a complaint after kicking the dog, would you?

34DD · 22/04/2013 12:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhDearNigel · 22/04/2013 12:55

A dog doesn't have to attack a human to be dangerously out of control in a public place. Attacking another, smaller dog is evidence that the animal is out of control. Section 3(1) of the Dangerous Dogs Act states

3(1) If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place:
(a) the owner; AND
(b) if different, the person for the time being in charge of the dog,
is guilty of an offence, or, if the dog while so out of control injures any person, an aggravated offence, under this section .

Causing injury to a person aggravates the offence but does not mean that injury has to be caused for the dog to be ooc. The definition of "dangerously out of control" states that there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that the dog will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so. It has been held that, for the purposes of an offence under section 3(1), if a dog causes injury without first causing anyone reasonable apprehension that it will do so, the injury itself constitutes grounds for reasonable apprehension of injury; Rafiq v DPP [1997]

Sounds to me like the police officer dealing with the case has misinterpreted the legislation. (I have dealt with quite a few DD cases in my police service and know the legislation quite well). I would ask to speak to their sergeant or inspector for an explanation

LibertineLover · 22/04/2013 13:06

Yes, my Brother has to go to court because he was looking after my Mums dog while she was away, and it attacked another dog.

She is a nightmare with small terrier type dogs, and my Mum never lets her off the lead, he thought it would be OK to do so though after having a look around and believing no one else was there. they were though and she attacked a dog quite badly, my Brother gave the lady his details and said he'd pay for any treatment, she still called the police though, and he has to go to court for having no control over the dog.

LibertineLover · 22/04/2013 13:07

Saying that though, did the other dog attack your dog OP? Or was it the other way round because your dog believed it was going to?

musicismylife · 22/04/2013 13:17

OP, yanbu. I would have been terrified. I hope that you are all ok.

But when I did have a dog, I remember taking it to a park and letting it off of its lead. These two huge dogs came bounding up to mine and started 'chasing' it. My dog (I thought) looked scared and I became hysterical. I remember shouting at the owner to have better control of his dogs (I was brave in those days).

He then pointed out that his dogs were, in fact, playing with my dog and what the fook was my problem. It was only then that I realised that they were playing. His dogs were chasing mine. I had assumed that because they had ran up to mine that they were wanting trouble.

DreamingOfTheMaldives · 22/04/2013 13:23

YNK - please stop now because you are making dog owners sound rather bonkers!

I have a gorgeous soppy beautiful dog whom I love dearly but I understand that not everyone likes dogs. I therefore keep an eye on him when he is off lead and call him back to me if we are walking close to children. Once we are past them, I will then allow him to run free again - I don't have to use a lead for this but use voice commands such as 'heel' and 'release.' It must be really frightening for a young child to turn round and come face to face with a dog the same size as him/her. I believe that dogs need off lead exercise for their well being but dog owners and other park users need to live in harmony together which is why I makes sure my dog is well trained. I keep my dog away from children unless they want to interact with him, in which case I make sure I am next to him at the time.

Children should be taught how to interact properly with dogs and dog owners should make sure their dogs are well trained. This is the best way for everyone to be able to enjoy communal spaces together.

My dog is well trained and is really soft. I get anxious when I see big powerful dogs come bounding up to him - my dog wouldn't stand a chance if one of them went for him - when such a dog approached us and was snarling at snapping at my dog and circling him, my dog didn't know what to do and hid behind me --despite the fact that he himself weighs 25kg! Thankfully the owner was following and I ranted at him to get his dog on a lead which he did. Irresponsible dog owners and untrained dogs worry responsible dog owners too!

KCO - Perhaps next time someone approaches me, even when I have no idea whether they are friend or foe, I should give them a punch in the mouth - after all, they may possibly attack me so I better punch them quick. Hmm

MyDarlingClementine · 22/04/2013 13:31

Can we have prior warning for dogs that have been well socialised before they scream up to us - bounding around and smiffing us or snarling?

" oh dont worry - this dog is well socialised?"

Muzzle

Muzzle

MUzzle

its the only way forward.

D0oinMeCleanin · 22/04/2013 13:36

Education, Education, Education.... It's the only way forward, for both dog owners and the general public.

DEFRA had a real chance to make a difference with the latest changes to the DDA, unfortunately they chose to ignore all the advise they were given by canine behavior experts, rescues and other welfare associations and went ahead with what they originally planned, despite being heavily advised against it.

We need to prevent attacks before they occur, not punish for them afterwards.

KansasCityOctopus · 22/04/2013 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyDarlingClementine · 22/04/2013 13:54

Some people do not want to be educated.

they want their dog to be scary and violent. That is why they have it in the first place.