to be furious that my long-term disabled sister has just been told she will have to pay the bedroom tax?

[ElectricSheep]

She has been battling with a very severe disability all of her life. Everyday is a struggle for her.

Twenty years ago after a long stay in hospital she was offered a 2 bedroom council flat so that she could be near us - her family - so that we can care for her and support her.

She knows she can never work again. Her consultant advised against it and it is just not a practical option.

And now she is expected to pay about 7% of her income in bedroom tax because the council gave her 2 bedrooms. She didn't ask for 2 bedrooms, it's all they had available. They can't offer her 1 bedroom and anyway moving would much more difficult for her than anyone else.

I'm so furious. On the day the Govt spend £10 million+ on a very controversial funeral they have just made life even more difficult and miserable for my brave, vulnerable sister. Bastards.

Can any one explain why, yet again, anyone who is a pensioner is exempt from this bedroom tax. Surely the DLA recipients have often had alot of money adapting homes for them or have spare rooms for therapy or because they physically cannot share with another person because of their condition. And I would have thought that its the pensioners who probably are still in big houses they dont want to leave after their kids have all left home (not that I am supportive of ANYONE being forced out of their home) but when the disabled are being targetted, what makes the pensioners so untouchable (along with everything else they have that has been ringfenced) I dont really want to believe that it is because they all vote Tory but the way they are treating the disabled doesnt incline me to believe that its because they are kind and caring.....

That Nettle is the most stupid thing I have read

Do you not understand that a lot of elderly people are themselves DISABLED or well on the way to being so.

What is the difference between an elderly person disabled with mobility problems, heart problems, sight and hearing problems, cognitive problems,continence problems and a young adult/child with the same issues - the answer is nothing.

Of course the main difference is that the child/young adult is normally living with adults a lot of them quite capable of getting a job if they are unemployed or a better paid job/more hours if they re on a low wage - a pensioner has no way of improving their finances as most cannot work

As for voting Tory - sorry thats not the case most pensioners who are in social housing started up that way, they tend to be working class and more likely to be Labour voters.

My Dd is 82 and has a three bed HA house but he still works and pays tax on both his pension and wages - he does not get HB and pays full rent so why should he move?

My sister is in a similar position. Severely disabled, unable to work, she lives in a small housing association bungalow which is adapted for a wheelchair user. Given the nature of the house it is only really suitable for someone exactly like her - she uses the tiny second bedroom to store her electric wheelchair as otherwise she can't get around inside. There are no accessible adapted one bed properties available and when her next door neighbour moved out (identical property) it was empty for months so clearly there are no overcrowded disabled people clamouring for more space. The council has turned down her application for the discretionary grant. She lives a quiet, frugal, difficult and often painful life and it makes me so angry to think it will be made more miserable by this disgraceful policy.

My SIL is vulnerable, lives alone in a 2 bedroom property, her mother died 2 years ago so now there is a spare bedroom. She is worrying about the changes in benefit. There is no way she can rent this room out and take in a lodger. SIL has paranoid schizophrenia. I really admire how she does her very very best to live her life despite her very difficult circumstances.
She does not need this shit.

YANBU and this so called Govt is appalling. They should hang their heads in shame the lot of them. Fucking hypocrites sitting in church and praying yesterday. I hate the lot of them, so many people are suffering in this country because of them.

YNBU what a horrid situation for you all. As far as I'm concerned this government seems to steal from the poor / vulnerable to give to the rich. I really hope your sister is ok

However, she must be pleased to be supported with money and accommodation, despite being unable to work

You must be pleased to have a free NHS, education system, police and firefighting force. I hope you doff your cap every time you receive a benefit.

Mrsdavidcaruso he won't have to move if he is paying the rent himself. And not all pensioners are disabled, obviously.

'Of course the main difference is that the child/young adult is normally living with adults a lot of them quite capable of getting a job if they are unemployed or a better paid job/more hours if they re on a low wage'

not true- in fact the carers of people who have a disability often find that they can't actually work f/t hours themselves due to the extent of their caring responsibilities.

This is going to impact on disabled people and their carers.

Mrsdavidcaruso you miss my point.

I am NOT suggesting that the pensioners should be liable for this bedroom tax, simply pointing out that they ARE exempt when other, similarly vulnerable people, are not.I do not want pensioners to be liable. I do not want the disabled to be liable either.

The indignation people feel when it is suggested that their 82 year old parent be shifted out of their family home is understandable and exactly the same emotion being felt by parents/ assocaites of disabled people, but sadly they are being shown no such compassion by this government. THAT is what I am trying to say.

I agree that many pensioners are disabled themselves, thats not my argument. In their case their disability wont make a difference anyway as the over 60s are exempt from this tax.

I just wonder WHY the government chose to ringfence a large section of society's welfare payments (remembering that pension and old age related payments account for by far the largest percentage of the welfare budget by a long way) whilst allowing a possible MORE vulnerable group to have their budget slashed from every angle. Is it because the pensioners vote? Is it because a perceved 'attack' on the elderly would cause a public outcry, as we all have parents but relatively few of us have disabled children (so cannot shout as loudly), Is it because the disabled are generally some of the poorest in society too, and therefore have little political clout.

We are either all in this together (well we know THAT is a lie) or they are making cuts based on economics and practicality where they can (again as the majority of over occupied housing is among the elderly that doesnt add up) or they are picking on those who are already the most disadvantaged and who they can easily publically demonise as shirkers and phoneys.....

Applauds Nettle, well said.

Our welfare system should be something we are proud of, a safety net to catch those in need, a sign of a civilised society. The current government are treating it like a dirty shameful thing and breaking it apart. Where does this leave the vulnerable? Cameron will be bringing back the workhouses next

I think that is spot on. If you are not lucky enough to have inherited wealth, then you can just fuck off , as far as the Gvt. are concerned! Utterly shocking on all levels.

Challenge it! My friend has and had it over turned...apparently they had the wrong information

Can I just highlight something relevant to DHPwontsolvemuch very helpful post.

Regarding disabled children.

There are two options that a family with a disabled child can use one is the DHP/DHF the other is applying for a straight exemption.

Some LA's haven't quite understood this and think its just a DHP thing but it is not they have the ability if they decide to,to just grant a straight exemption.

I'm expecting this to become more understood as time goes by.

Also if they request just DR's letters and won't accept anything else such as Carer evidence or school or social worker evidence and make a decision based solely on Dr's letter. then they are going to have a massive problem because they are obliged to consider all evidence and place more weight obviously after medical confirmation of the disability itself,on evidence of people who are actually there at night the ones who have knowledge of what happens at night time and are often better placed to provide info than a gp would be.And the focus is not on the disabled child themselves but the disturbance and impact on the other child who would be expected to share with them.

The current understanding is that they are not obliged to exempt OR grant a DHP/DHF award but they are obliged to asses the situation and do have t justify a none exemption.

Excellent post Nettletea.

I have to admit that when I first heard about the bedroom tax I thought it might be a sensible idea - it would ensure that families who need bigger homes are able to get them as they would swap with people who have spare rooms that they don't need.

It didn't take a huge amount of thought, and reading articles online, thereafter to realise that is a plan that only sounds sensible on the surface - underneath the surface it is a bloody awful idea and will penalise people through no fault of their own.

I guess my Dad would have been affected by this bedroom tax as he lived in a privately rented 2 bed house. My sister lived with him when not at uni. Dad had worked from 15 years old but at 55 he was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumour and although lived for 4 years, a lot longer than the anticipated 9 months, some of that time, probably 3 of those years, he was very poorly. Yes he was able to live alone Vijac, until he went into a hospice that is, but he got dreadful headaches, had epileptic seizures, had been weakened by the steroids he frequently had to take and was only ever awake for about 2 hours before needing to sleep again (usually for at least an hour.) What job do you suggest he could have done Vijac?

This 'tax' is just so illogical and badly thought out and just stupid that it fills me with rage. I feel desperately sad for people who are being made to feel as though they are some kind of inconvenience to us all and that she should be meek and gratefully receive whatever crumbs the government decides to throw their way. It's disgusting.

A lot of our clients at work are now facing this (clients are carers), and basically being told that they would be in a better position if they have a paid carer come in overnight as then they wont be classed as having a spare bedroom and wont be paying the extra %14. But then who pays for the overnight care? Does it come out of the persons Personal Budget, and they have less money to spend on their other needs, do the local authority pay for the extra care (and is that more or less expensive than the %14?!) or do the family pay for it so they can have peace of mind? And that's not even touching on the issue of whether you want a stranger in your house over night, possibly taking care of your personal needs, when many many of our clients are carers for their family mainly because that is something they are trying to avoid.

If there were enough smaller (but sensibly sized and adapted) properties, if this was being applied to the over 60's (who are the majority of those in oversized homes), if there was any consideration for why a family's circumstances might require an extra room... But there isn't, and it wont be and it's just a disaster.

So YANBU and I have nothing but sympathy for the people this government is trying to screw over.

Can I urge everyone who has expressed disgust at the bedroom tax to write to their MPs, local councillors and Cameron? Also, find your local anti-bedroom tax organisers and join their campaign?

I have a fear that if we accept this tax lying down, the government will assume they can get away with trampling on us more and more. this tax doesn't affect me because i don't claim HB, but that doesn't stop me fighting on other people's behalf.
It's how the poll tax was abolished after all.

Seriouscakeeater,

The only info they could have not got correct that would be relevant to the under occupancy rules would be

1. They do not know your friend is a pensioner.
2. They do not know they correct amount of resident children and or age or gender.
3. They are unaware your friend is a convicted sex offender.

That is it. So unless any of the above 3 things are likely to be the case its not worth challenging it.

sock it was no.2 on the list! Also they actually had the wrong name!

If you're a carer there is a toolkit on the Carers UK website available here that has a letter you can use and some arguments you can use to appeal the decision. Doesn't guarantee success, but if you're struggling to phrase your appeal and want a bit of guidance it is quite useful.

Disclaimer; I don't work for Carers UK.

Does it vary between areas?

I had a letter this week requesting information as to why my disabled child can't reasonably be expected to share a bedroom, and that I may be eligible for the higher room rate allowance for HB.

We are in a private rental. I didn't ask for exemption, but have recently made a first application for HB and was sent this letter off the back of my claim.

Sockreturningpixie - I cannot say how strongly I disagree with you that "it's not worth challenging it". It is always worth challenging it, even if you don't think you have grounds to (nothing to lose). It is especially worth challenging it if it is discriminatory due to disability - there are legal challenges being put forward by various organisations and if you want to benefit from the outcomes you need to appeal. Some more info here www.govanhilllc.com/?p=757

The more people who challenge this, the better.

Maja.

Disagreeing with me does not change the fact that hoping that the LA have incorrect info and raising that with them in the hope that it will work will have no impact whatsoever unless they have incorrect info and the incorrect info they have is directly relevant to the rule.

Such as the situation with seriouscake's lucky friend her challenge worked because they DID have incorrect info directly relevant to the rules.

Making a legal challenge or a protest challenge is very different to a error challenge.

I'm more than happy to help fund legal challenges I'm also quite happy to chain myself to a fence somewhere in protest I'm very happy to do what I can to fight this however making a admin challenge unless there is a actual error is not quite the same.

Hi op sorry to hear this.

Is there a friend or family member who is looking for a room and could be a lodger? Would this be suitable at all?

Surely taking in a lodger isn't the answer anyway because they you would be receiving income and that would affect you entitlement to other benefits? Not to mention the whole 'well just have a stranger come live in your house!' being a bit of an issue for most people, let alone very vulnerable people. I'm not having a go at you reneaa2 just frustrated at the whole situation for so many people.