To think it's not appropriate for a teacher to express their political views to the class they teach?

[lottieandmia]

Dd, aged 9 has come home from school saying that her teacher used their Geography lesson to lecture the children on how wonderful Thatcher was and how nearly everyone in the UK thought she was doing the right thing.

I think it is wrong for a teacher to express their political opinions to a class they teach, and particularly to misrepresent the truth about someone who divided opinion so much in the Uk, and make her out to be some kind of saviour.

This teacher has always seemed great to me in the past - what was she thinking??

I knew you'd have the right quote and everything.

Hi GoblinGranny - spotted you this time!

Fargo - inciting terrorism? I don't think he would get away with that today!

I think you have to be very careful. Did the teacher use the word "Good"?

Was the teacher just arguing the other point of view from one expressed by some students?

If you just look at the debates on MN you will see there can be a variety of opinions held about Mrs Thatcher. Some of what she did can be argued to have been "good" or close, a lot can be argued to have "shaped Britain as it is today", some of it can be argued to be "bad".

I could even be that if you have expressed negative opinions about Mrs T., that your daughter (perhaps clumsily and half-remembered as she is only 9) tried to express to you only the opinions she heard at school which were countrary to those she heard at home?

"Was the teacher just arguing the other point of view from one expressed by some students?"

These kids are 9.

Having said that, dd at that age would have argued very strongly against that teacher's very subjective view point.

kim47
Teachers should not express their views on divisive subjects and should not use the opportunity to preach to an audience.

Completely agree with should not use the opportunity to preach to an audience and completely, UTTERLY disagree on Teachers should not express their views on divisive subjects - why? As long as they make it completely clear that it is only one view I see no harm whatsoever in expressing their view.
It shows pupils that there are different views on certain issues - I would express my view and encourage them to express theirs, especially if different.
To not do so is bland and weak - we are role models for the children we teach and we can show them that it is important to be able to express your own views on things and teach them that everyone (even teachers!) has a right to their own opinion.

YANBU. I teach at a university, so all my students are adults (at least nominally!), and even so I keep my political views out of the classroom. As a teacher, one has a position of authority and I think it is unfair to exploit that position to express one's own views. When I teach about something with a political content, I certainly put forth various opinions, e.g. some people interpret the given event in this way (insert details), others in that way (insert other details). But it really isn't up to me to provide my personal interpretation as the only correct POV.

I feel even more strongly about it when children are involved. I think the OP is right to be annoyed and concerned about this situation.

Feenie et al - sharing opinions is NOT banned in the teachers' standards

Teachers uphold public trust in the profession and maintain high
standards of ethics and behaviour, within and outside school, by:
ensuring that personal beliefs are not expressed in ways which
exploit pupils? vulnerability

That last bit is key - it is fine to express personal opinion as long as it is appropriate (i.e. not indoctrination!)

We discussed Thatcher today and I made references to positive aspects of her character....being courageous (in leading the country as it is a huge responsibility), determined (she never gave up even when people didn't think she was doing the right thing and confident (she was able to cope with public speaking, making difficult decisions with confidence. We spoke as an introduction about historical/influential women we admire alongside others such as Ellie Simmonds, Anne Frank etc. I do not have an opinion on Thatcher given I was too young to live through her changes but if you were in my lesson, you would have thought I did support her as I spoke positively about her and her character. Maybe tonight some of my class will go home and tell their parents the same thing as some children tell things in their own words and discuss things they perceive as being fact.

I think that expressing discriminatory views would come under the guideline not to express personal views in ways which exploit pupils' vulnerability

It's all about balance, using professional judgement and, most importantly, putting the needs of the pupil first. I would not share an opinion with a class if I thought it would upset them or was not age-appropriate.

Totally see where you are coming from though now kim

Both sides of the argument are always required funny though how when our dc were in a state school it only ever seemed to be the left that was nakedly presented. Would have been a breath of fresh air if a teacher had put forward Conservative views. At the indys they now attend we get neither.

There's nothing wrong with a teacher expressing a political opinion. It only becomes wrong when the teacher won't allow the child to argue the opposite point of view.

YANBU.

However, she may just have been putting both sides of the argument out there, and let's face it most people did think she was doing the right thing, which is why she was elected three times, regardless of what you might think.

And if your DS is used to hearing only that she was an evil withc from you then anything at all to balance the argument might sound like a lie to him, no matter how even-handed the teacher was being.

I think it's completely wrong to try to brainwash children about politics or religion. But sometimes in order to teach or explain something in a full and unbiased fashion you have to out both sides of the argument out there.

When I was 9/10 one of our favourite ways of distracting our teacher was to get her to let us debate subjects. My own DCs school has a public speaking competition for years 5 and 6.

If you don't think 9 year olds can come out with strong opinions, then I wonder how many you know. Although a lot will just be parroting what they have heard, I can assure you quite a lot of what my 9 year old says does not come from what she is taught at home.

But I did grow up with a Communist teacher, and most teachers at my school had left wing views. I also remember a teacher letting slip when I was 9 that he was an Atheist.

No, I have never talked about Thatcher with the children. I was only 10 when she was ousted.

TheRealFellatio I don't want to be antagonistic, but that's not quite correct. In the 1983 general election, the conservatives got 42.4% of the vote, meaning more people voted against than for. In the 1987 election the percentage was similar. So most people actually voted against her, but they didn't all vote for the same party, as we don't have a two party system, and the vote was split between labour and the social democrats and others.

Obviously more people thought Thatcher was the best possible leader for the country than any other leader though, so these people did agree with her policies, but it wasn't most.

On topic- I do think teachers are supposed to avoid political bias, especially with young children, and I would want to discuss with the teacher exactly what she said.

YANBU, I say that as a teacher.

You should try and remain as neutral as you can on emotive/sensitive topics. You shouldn't be imparting your opinions unless they are specifically asked for and even then, you should tread very carefully. It's not about what the teacher believes, it's teaching the children that people all have different views and that they should be given the information to make their own, informed opinion.

QUOTE TheRealFellatio: 'However, she may just have been putting both sides of the argument out there, and let's face it most people did think she was doing the right thing, which is why she was elected three times, regardless of what you might think.'

Why do people keep saying this? Our Electoral system is not proportional. It is possible to form the Government and to have received fewer votes than the main opposition party.
The Conservative percentage share of the vote was around 43% in all three Thatcher 'victories' - impressive yes but not a majority. FPTP was designed for a two-party system. It doesn't work very well when there is a third party involved as it splits the right wing or left wing vote.

Most politicians would be very happy with a 40% share and under our system of large seat numbers, think it gives them a mandate/right to govern over the 60%(majority) who did not vote for them.
Traditionally Labour/Liberal were always closer in policy to each other and left the Tories alone on the right, so this means that in the Thatcher and even in the Major years - 60% did not vote Conservative....and being mainly LibDem or Labour supporters did not like anything much of Government policy.

But and this is unique to Thatcher ...she was the most divisive figure I can think of and was the only democratically elected PM I have ever actively disliked along with approx 50% of the population around at the time...in fact her St Francis of Assisi opening speech about bringing harmony can now be seen as ironic indeed and hollow hollow words.
Her policies were very extreme and she brooked no dissent from anyone, did not even pretend to consult.
It was a 5 year dictatorship effectively (well 4 year as she always called the election early at 4 years) and it felt very oppressive at the time if you did not share her views.
Blair may have incurred a lot of criticism for Iraq but prior to that he was very popular and in no way had the type of divisive policies that enraged swathes of the country....he had had to pull the Labour Party into the centre a bit in order to get MPs elected in the South of England outside London....how ridiculous to think that everyone south of Birmingham is a Tory...and yet that is what the system delivered....or conversely that there are no Tories in Scotland....I could go on but won't.
Do you reckon I can switch Radio 4 back on now without running the risk of being exposed to Thatcher sycophancy?

I've taught moral philosophy and applied ethics at University level for 15 years and never divulged my personal views to students. It is certainly possible to teach other people how to reason about these kinds of issues without expressing your personal commitment to one or another view. I have taught contentious subjects like abortion and end of life decisions to audiences that will certainly have had personal experience of them but I wouldn't presume to merely tell them what I think. My job is to help them think through these issues for themselves so merely telling them a view that happens to be mine is pointless.

If my students are interested in my research claims they should read my publications, if they are interested in my personal views they should come over for dinner!

I wouldn't mind as long as she was open to views that disagreed with her, tbh.

I was indoctrinated in school by the ways of new labour and our extreme left-wing head.

His views about racism, apologising for slavery and immiration were nothing short of ludicrous and he preached as if it were fact and YOU WERE NOT ALLOWED to disagree. That is wrong.

Id be interested to hear how the OP feels about Politics teachers expressing views?

YANBU to a point, although I wouldn't be concerned at this stage of her school career. At school, I didn't much care about my teachers being blatantly left-wing (in a private school, I thought it made them hypocrites) as long as they taught their subjects properly. But once I got to university, where we were all adults, I'm afraid the lecturers' leftie tendencies started to stick in my craw, because it became argumentative, nasty and personal.