To spend my morning watching the funeral of Maggie Thatcher (on BBC) ?

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

She was our first woman prime-minister - a significant personal achievement, especially for the daughter of a grocer from Grantham, born in 1925

Also I agree with those that say these ceremonial occasions are something we do really well in Britain.

So AIBU to be watching this morning - in spite of disagreeing with many of her policies ? Will you be watching ?
And what do you make of both her personal achievement and her legacy ?

Manufacturing went up over her premiership in real terms. It fell as a % of GDP because other areas of the economy grew by more.

Clawdy
Her father was a strict Methodist, and made sure his family lived in a very spartan manner - outside loo, no 'fancy' foods (although they owned a grocer's shop, these were for customers only), church 4 times on a Sunday. He was also a great believer in service to the community. Hers was not a rich upbringing in any way - although they presumably had food!

A lot of people still had outside loos in the 1920s and 30s - the houses my parents and in-laws grew up in did. My husband was growing up in a house with an outside loo and no bathroom until 1961, although they were much rarer by then.

The family was almost certainly not rich, but they were most definitely not poor, and I very much doubt whether they would even have considered themselves working class.

"The average house cost £30,000 more when she left than it had when she arrived."

Prices grew around 20% in real terms. Because of vastly increased wages (inflation), the £30,000 increase is not what it seems. Over the whole Tory term, prices were flat in real terms. Ruinous HPI occurred under Labour (doubled in real terms), over a decade later than the 1988 Housing Act.

Pensions were raided by Gordon Brown, and whereas we had growth over the Conservative term in the market, subsequently they have gone to hell. Old assumptions seemed valid at the time. Brown ran the FTSE up to 6930 in December 1999, and it fell by half subsequently, to below in March 2003.

Another boom soon followed, and by October 2007 the markets were up at 6721, and again another 40% bust, falling to 3800. They still haven't returned to their 1999 highs now, in 2013. By comparison the 1987 stockmarket crash was only 30%, and was the only one to occur in 18 years of Tory rule.

The fact is that pension 'misselling' is only misselling in retrospect, because the markets haven't performed, under Labour over 1997-2010, as they had done under previous governments. There was endless boom and bust, with a distinct emphasis on the bust.

But Grovel, the economy didn't grow by much under her did it? She wouldn't let it because she thought that was the way to control inflation IIRC. I think the byproduct of this policy was the high unemployment, and it didn't work on inflation either I don't think.

I'm quite happy to be corrected on this BTW. I've always been more interested in the social rather than the economic side of things.

I didn't watch much, but glimpsed many of Thatcher's old colleagues who obviously came out of retirement for the occasion.

They were now mostly very old men now, yet I remembered them very clearly ... it really took me back in time. Almost another era.

Remember the 'Barber Boom' Yoni? Was that Labour? (For those who weren't around during the time, no it wasn't.)

I don't vote Labour, never have, and I don't think I am likely to, but I am so fed up with this 'the Tories are perfect, especially under Thatcher', and 'everything Labour did was rubbish' malarky.

Real GDP grew 30% under Thatcher (1979-90), 18% under Major (1990-97), and 33% under Labour (1997-2010).

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/nov/25/gdp-uk-1948-growth-economy

Long-term real growth rates are basically around 2% per year regardless of government.

"Remember the 'Barber Boom' Yoni? "

Well no I don't, actually, I wasn't born, this thread is about Thatcher, and some people claiming she was dreadful. It's perfectly valid to compare her to previous and subsequent governments of both parties though.

Skipped, what do you mean by voluntary?

Grants were frozen and the loan topped up living expenses. It was only voluntary if you we're lucky enough to have wealthy parents who could top up for you .

Her plan was to abolish grants - subsequent governments just finished what she started.

Something of a rhetorical question; as you say it's perfectly valid to compare her to previous and subsequent governments.

There were booms and busts under previous and subsequent Tory governments, Barber Boom, Lawson boom. People choose to ignore those, because they don't fit their script. Or some posters, (can't remember which) are going on about Labour getting the country into a mess during the 70s and then instancing the three day week as an example. And then keeping shtum when they are reminded that it wasn't a Labour government.

Some people claim that she was dreadful because to them she was.

Thanks for the GDP figures Yoni. Do you also have the inflation and unemployment figures for the same periods?

By comparison the 1987 stockmarket crash was only 30%, and was the only one to occur in 18 years of Tory rule.
Black Wednesday. 16th September 1992.

Dawndonna. Black Wednesday? 1992. Not Thatcher, not part of the script. Major seems to have been completely erased from the script. I know that Spitting Image portrayed him as being grey, but to make him invisible??

Growlithe

But Grovel, the economy didn't grow by much under her did it?

It grew by 25% in real terms (including the effects of inflation) from 1979 to 1990.

She wouldn't let it because she thought that was the way to control inflation IIRC.

Monetarist theory says that control of the money supply is the way to control inflation. That means control of government spending and money printing.

I think the byproduct of this policy was the high unemployment, and it didn't work on inflation either I don't think.

Inflation plunged under the Thatcher government. You can use this Historic inflation calculator to see how much by, but I've done the figures for you for 1970-2000.

Between 1970 and 1980 - cumulative inflation 228%
Between 1980 and 1990 - cumulative inflation 103%
Between 1990 and 2000 - cumulative inflation 43%

Most of the 80-90 inflation took place in the first 2 years. Interestingly, if you take inflation from her 2nd election victory in 1983 (when it would be fair to say that her economic policies had started to have an effect) and run it all the way to 1990, inflation was 42% for that period.

So, Yoni says:

Real GDP grew 30% under Thatcher (1979-90), 18% under Major (1990-97), and 33% under Labour (1997-2010)

And flatpack says:

Between 1970 and 1980 - cumulative inflation 228%
Between 1980 and 1990 - cumulative inflation 103%
Between 1990 and 2000 - cumulative inflation 43%

flatpack can you explain what cumulative inflation is? And do you have cumulative inflation for the period 1997 - 2010?

Does anyone have figures for GDP for the period 1970 - 1980, although this period does span both Conservative and Labour governments IIRC?

Does anyone have any unemployment figures for these periods?

Does anyone have all three figures for the current administration?

I just want to compare eggs with eggs, and don't know how to find the figures.

Also, apart from GDP, inflation and unemployment, are there any other factors we should be taking into consideration when assessing the relative economic success of an administation?

Sorry administration.

"Black Wednesday. 16th September 1992."

Black Wednesday was not a stockmarket crash. In fact the stockmarket ROSE on Black Wednesday:

uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EFTSE#symbol=%5Eftse;range=19920901,19921001;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

"Do you also have the inflation and unemployment figures for the same periods?"
www.wolfbane.com/rpi.htm

The level on May 1979 was 54.53, and in November 1990 130.0. This is 7.8% per annum.

Inflation under Labour from 1974 to 1979 was 12.1% annually. Under Heath from 1970 to 1974 9.2%.

Inflation was still rising when she came into power, but it fell after 1981.

Unemployment in 1979 ranged between 5.4% and 6.0%, and in 1990 between 5.4% and 6.4%.

Unemployment doubled under the previous Labour government with unemployment rates between 2.3% and 2.8% in 1974.

I''m a bit surprised by the unemployment figures TBH. I thought they rose to around 12% in the early 80s.

Yes they did, but from 1979 to 1990 there was no net change, i.e. they rose 1979 to 1982 and fell subsequently.

That is why I am struggling with all the quoted statistics I think. Snapshots seem to be taken at certain points in order to prove an argument.

Is it impossible to get an objective view of the success of an administration, over the whole period of administration?

It's hard to say really.

Certainly unemployment grew in her first term, as I understand it this was because she was setting out first of all to conquer the inflation of the 70s. She did this, and unemployment fell subsequently.

Whether or not it was a success overall I guess is a matter of opinion.

I suppose we could do with an ecomonic historian to come and compare all KPI in a true like for like way, and explain calculations in lay man's terms (without spin of course).

Until we get that it is all too subjective, and the rhetoric of the last week and a half is pretty meaningless.

She achieved capitalism. Is that good or bad?