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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that seeing our national debt might

162 replies

rottentomatoes · 13/04/2013 12:19

stop people moaning about the government spending cuts? Aibu to think that if this timebomb was put on every computer screen as a screen saver people might be less likely to moan about the cuts being made in government spending.

Our Debt

Where it goes

OP posts:
amothersplaceisinthewrong · 14/04/2013 16:01

What I want to know is who do we owe this money to that makes up our debt? China?

I would like to see the winter fuel allowance and free bus passes withdrawn for wealthy pensioners.

Talkinpeace · 14/04/2013 16:02

statistically
please, please, please read more.
The headline fee of 1% is NOT what they extract from the fund.
Once the trading and interest fees are taken even the very very best stakeholder pensions are running at well over 2.5% per year fees
the OFT is currently investigating
BE AWARE, be VERY AWARE

And the vast bulk of employers have less than 20 employees so economies of scale go out the window once the non contributory employees (I earn below the limit at each of my employers and some of my colleagues are over 65) are taken into account.

but even the Economist is starting to kick off about excessive hidden UK pension costs compared with Germany and Scandinavia.

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/04/2013 16:06

TalkinPeace - I know the headline rate is not the only factor. I am trying not to disclose my entire employment history here but I do know how charges on pension schemes work. I do not need to "read more" and you shouldn't assume that everyone who disagrees with you is less knowledgeable.

rottentomatoes · 14/04/2013 19:36

talkinpeace
"fees on pension funds run at 3% a year while returns run at 2% a year"

This is certainly not the case for my pension, where do you get these ball park figures from? It must be a very poorly manged fund.

OP posts:
rottentomatoes · 14/04/2013 19:48

Talkinpeace I will repeat what StatisticallyChallenged said. Please don't assume I know less than you about pensions.
3% is a truly terrible return and I am not talking about projections.

OP posts:
StatisticallyChallenged · 14/04/2013 20:00

TalkinPeace you are swallowing a lot of badly written bollocks, I'm sorry. There is little explanation of how those figures have been reached in any of those articles.

Yes, people have been hit with hidden charges historically (a lot related to adviser commission), but the regulations governing what an insurance company must disclose in quotes and after sales materials is about a mile long. And the OFT are launching a survey - erm, there is about to be massive reform, I'd damn well hope they are assessing how well the industry can cope with it.

Yes, there are cheaper pensions running abroad on the face of it but to say that people should therefore opt to not have pensions in this country is seriously misguided.

And your initial posts said costs were 3% were returns were 2% - implying you'd get less back than was paid in purely as a result of fees. Fees will reduce your return, yes. But that is to an extent the price you pay for having access to the tax free wrapper provided by a pension, plus the employer contributions (where relevant.) The combination of the two means that, when comparing similar investments most people will do better from being in the pension than out of it.

No investment is free from charges. They just declare it in different ways.

Talkinpeace · 14/04/2013 20:03

If you say so.

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/04/2013 20:04

Those are real returns TalkinPeace....and over a period incorporating a huge recession which crashed the value of anything invested in stocks, shares, etc etc

You know that money in a savings account would exhibit negative real returns in many circumstances too?

JuliaScurr · 14/04/2013 20:42

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/01/welfare-fraud-tax-avoidance

an interesting comparison

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