Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you agree with Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher - 'I always felt sorry for her children'?

97 replies

vivizone · 10/04/2013 02:00

Yes another thread on MT and I am sure there will be more.

I have always liked RB and remember when he also wrote a fitting article about Jade Goody after her death. Behind the spiky hair and OTT personality, I find RB to be a very intelligent individual.

Anyway, here is a brilliant (IMO) article he has written about MT. Absolutely spot on.

(I have also pasted the article here to minimise accusation of trying to get hits for the Guardian, haha.

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher#start-of-comments

Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher: 'I always felt sorry for her children'
The actor and comedian recalls a bizarre recent encounter with the Iron Lady, and how it prompted him to think about growing up under the most unlikely matriarch-figure imaginable

One Sunday recently while staying in London, I took a stroll in the gardens of Temple, the insular clod of quads and offices between the Strand and the Embankment. It's kind of a luxury rent-controlled ghetto for lawyers and barristers, and there is a beautiful tailors, a fine chapel, established by the Knights Templar (from which the compound takes its name), a twee cottage designed by Sir Christopher Wren and a rose garden; which I never promised you.

My mate John and I were wandering there together, he expertly proselytising on the architecture and the history of the place, me pretending to be Rumpole of the Bailey (quietly in my mind), when we spied in the distant garden a hunched and frail figure, in a raincoat, scarf about her head, watering the roses under the breezy supervision of a masticating copper. "What's going on there, mate?" John asked a nearby chippy loading his white van. "Maggie Thatcher," he said. "Comes here every week to water them flowers." The three of us watched as the gentle horticultural ritual was feebly enacted, then regarded the Iron Lady being helped into the back of a car and trundling off. In this moment she inspired only curiosity, a pale phantom, dumbly filling her day. None present eyed her meanly or spoke with vitriol and it wasn't until an hour later that I dreamt up an Ealing comedy-style caper in which two inept crooks kidnap Thatcher from the garden but are unable to cope with the demands of dealing with her, and finally give her back. This reverie only occurred when the car was out of view. In her diminished presence I stared like an amateur astronomer unable to describe my awe at this distant phenomenon.

When I was a kid, Thatcher was the headmistress of our country. Her voice, a bellicose yawn, somehow both boring and boring ? I could ignore the content but the intent drilled its way in. She became leader of the Conservatives the year I was born and prime minister when I was four. She remained in power till I was 15. I am, it's safe to say, one of Thatcher's children. How then do I feel on the day of this matriarchal mourning?

I grew up in Essex with a single mum and a go-getter Dagenham dad. I don't know if they ever voted for her, I don't know if they liked her. My dad, I suspect, did. He had enough Del Boy about him to admire her coiffured virility ? but in a way Thatcher was so omnipotent; so omnipresent, so omni-everything that all opinion was redundant.

As I scan the statements of my memory bank for early deposits (it'd be a kid's memory bank account at a neurological NatWest where you're encouraged to become a greedy little capitalist with an escalating family of porcelain pigs), I see her in her hairy helmet, condescending on Nationwide, eviscerating eunuch MPs and baffled BBC fuddy duddies with her General Zodd stare and coldly condemning the IRA. And the miners. And the single mums. The dockers. The poll-tax rioters. The Brixton rioters, the Argentinians, teachers; everyone actually.

Thinking about it now, when I was a child she was just a strict woman telling everyone off and selling everything off. I didn't know what to think of this fearsome woman.

Perhaps my early apathy and indifference are a result of what Thatcher deliberately engendered, the idea that "there is no such thing as society", that we are alone on our journey through life, solitary atoms of consciousness. Or perhaps it was just because I was a little kid and more interested in them Weetabix skinheads, Roland Rat and Knight Rider. Either way, I'm an adult now and none of those things are on telly any more so there's no excuse for apathy.

When John Lennon was told of Elvis Presley's death, he famously responded: "Elvis died when he joined the army," meaning of course, that his combat clothing and clipped hair signalled the demise of the thrusting, Dionysian revolution of which he was the immaculate emblem.

When I awoke today on LA time my phone was full of impertinent digital eulogies. It'd be disingenuous to omit that there were a fair number of ding-dong-style celebratory messages amidst the pensive reflections on the end of an era. Interestingly, one mate of mine, a proper leftie, in his heyday all Red Wedge and right-on punch-ups, was melancholy. "I thought I'd be overjoyed, but really it's just ? another one bites the dust ?" This demonstrates, I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies.

Perhaps, though, Thatcher "the monster" didn't die yesterday from a stroke, perhaps that Thatcher died as she sobbed self-pitying tears as she was driven, defeated, from Downing Street, ousted by her own party. By then, 1990, I was 15, adolescent and instinctively anti-establishment enough to regard her disdainfully. I'd unthinkingly imbibed enough doctrine to know that, troubled as I was, there was little point looking elsewhere for support. I was on my own. We are all on our own. Norman Tebbit, one of Thatcher's acolytes and fellow "Munsters evacuee", said when the National Union of Mineworkers eventually succumbed to the military onslaught and starvation over which she presided: "We didn't just break the strike, we broke the spell." The spell he was referring to is the unseen bond that connects us all and prevents us from being subjugated by tyranny. The spell of community.

Those strikes were confusing to me as a child. All of the Tory edicts that bludgeoned our nation, as my generation squirmed through ghoulish puberty, were confusing. When all the public amenities were flogged, the adverts made it seem to my childish eyes fun and positive, jaunty slogans and affable British stereotypes jostling about in villages, selling people companies that they'd already paid for through tax. I just now watched the British Gas one again. It's like a whimsical live-action episode of Postman Pat where his cat is craftily carved up and sold back to him.

"The News" was the pompous conduit through which we suckled at the barren baroness through newscaster wet-nurses, naturally; not direct from the steel teat. Jan Leeming, Sue Lawley, Moira Stuart ? delivering doctrine with sterile sexiness, like a butterscotch-scented beige vapour. To use a less bizarre analogy: if Thatcher was the headmistress, they were junior teachers, authoritative but warm enough that you could call them "mum" by accident. You could never call Margaret Mother by mistake. For a national matriarch she is oddly unmaternal. I always felt a bit sorry for her biological children Mark and Carol, wondering from whom they would get their cuddles. "Thatcher as mother" seemed, to my tiddly mind, anathema. How could anyone who was so resolutely Margaret Thatcher be anything else? In the Meryl Streep film, The Iron Lady, it's the scenes of domesticity that appear most absurd. Knocking up a flan for Denis or helping Carol with her algebra or Mark with his gun-running, are jarring distractions from the main narrative; woman as warrior queen.

It always struck me as peculiar, too, when the Spice Girls briefly championed Thatcher as an early example of girl power. I don't see that. She is an anomaly; a product of the freak-onomy of her time. Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.

I have few recollections of Thatcher after the slowly chauffeured, weepy Downing Street cortege. I'd become a delinquent, living on heroin and benefit fraud.

There were sporadic resurrections. She would appear in public to drape a hankie over a model BA plane tailfin because she disliked the unpatriotic logo with which they'd replaced the union flag (maybe don't privatise BA then), or to shuffle about some country pile arm in arm with a doddery Pinochet and tell us all what a fine fellow he was. It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context. They're happy to share big windfall bonuses with their cronies, they'll stick up for deposed dictator chums when they're down on their luck, they'll find opportunities in business for people they care about. I hope I'm not being reductive but it seems Thatcher's time in power was solely spent diminishing the resources of those who had least for the advancement of those who had most. I know from my own indulgence in selfish behaviour that it's much easier to get what you want if you remove from consideration the effect your actions will have on others.

Is that what made her so formidable, her ability to ignore the suffering of others? Given the nature of her legacy "survival of the fittest" ? a phrase that Darwin himself only used twice in On the Origin of Species, compared to hundreds of references to altruism, love and cooperation, it isn't surprising that there are parties tonight in Liverpool, Glasgow and Brixton ? from where are they to have learned compassion and forgiveness?

The blunt, pathetic reality today is that a little old lady has died, who in the winter of her life had to water roses alone under police supervision. If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end there isn't. Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else. There are pangs of nostalgia, yes, because for me she's all tied up with Hi-De-Hi and Speak and Spell and Blockbusters and "follow the bear". What is more troubling is my inability to ascertain where my own selfishness ends and her neo-liberal inculcation begins. All of us that grew up under Thatcher were taught that it is good to be selfish, that other people's pain is not your problem, that pain is in fact a weakness and suffering is deserved and shameful. Perhaps there is resentment because the clemency and respect that are being mawkishly displayed now by some and haughtily demanded of the rest of us at the impending, solemn ceremonial funeral, are values that her government and policies sought to annihilate.

I can't articulate with the skill of either of "the Marks" ? Steel or Thomas ? why Thatcher and Thatcherism were so bad for Britain but I do recall that even to a child her demeanour and every discernible action seemed to be to the detriment of our national spirit and identity. Her refusal to stand against apartheid, her civil war against the unions, her aggression towards our neighbours in Ireland and a taxation system that was devised in the dark ages, the bombing of a retreating ship ? it's just not British.

I do not yet know what effect Margaret Thatcher has had on me as an individual or on the character of our country as we continue to evolve. As a child she unnerved me but we are not children now and we are free to choose our own ethical codes and leaders that reflect them.

OP posts:
thebody · 10/04/2013 11:14

The article is rubbish, he is vile as you may remember Andrew Sachs rigmarole.

Katy had described her marriage to him as very unhappy.

How can it strike him that someone he has never met as not maternal and how in earth is that any if his business anyway?

He was a baby in 1979? He had no idea what he is talking about.

Seriously do you as a woman think its ok for a man to ever question the maternal ability of someone he doesn't even know.

According to people who do know her she adored her children but obviously as a prime minister she wasn't always there at bath and bed time like many many men. Are they bad dads?

HoHoHoNoYouDont · 10/04/2013 11:19

Second what Conference and thebody say. Sick and tired of people questioning women in this way. They rarely do it to a man.

Dahlen · 10/04/2013 11:38

I'll ignore the fact that his comments on her mothering abilities occupied only a couple of sentences in the entire article, and answer the question.

I neither agree nor disagree with him. I was not privy to MT's home-life so couldn't possibly comment. While I didn't like her political persona much, I'd say it's rather lacking in insight to view people in such a one-dimensional manner. People adapt to the situation they are in and react accordingly. Being at home with your DC is an entirely different situation to answering questions in a cabinet meeting or giving a press interview.

That said, happy, well-adjusted people tend to be 'authentic' in the sense that their behavioural patterns tend to be similar regardless of their environment, so I can understand where Brand is coming from. However, politics (and any other public role), is different, and that has to be understood. As a celebrity who cultivates a brash, womanising, lowest-common-denominator image yet also wants to be taken seriously writing political articles in the Guardian, Brand should know that.

purits · 10/04/2013 11:43

Two thoughts:

a) what has her parenting got to do with the price of fish? No-one ever says this about a man.

b) RB has portrayed her as a cold person, without humanity. Remind me again which one, RB or MT, managed to stay happily married til death us do part? MT may not have been fluffy about hypotheticals but she gave and got love in her personal life.

I heard a piece on the radio yesterday about "there is no such thing as society". What she meant was that there is no building with a reception desk where you can march up and demand to see the Managing Director of Society. It doesn't exist; all there is is human beings. She thought that when we see life as a collection of humans and neighbours then 'putting in' or 'taking out' felt much more personal. It is a different mentality when you think 'I am getting assistance because Mr Brown at No6 is paying his tax' instead of 'I demand my rights from the Government'. This is where we are at the moment with loads of pressure groups trying to convince us that their needs are greater than someone else's, without thinking where the money comes from. Society thinks in terms of rights. MT thought in terms of rights and obligations.

Mrneedy · 10/04/2013 11:49

I think if you just take that line out of context, it's a bit harsh, but he is commenting on his opinion of MT, that she didn't seem like a mum, because she was distinctly Margaret Thatcher

You could never call Margaret Mother by mistake. For a national matriarch she is oddly unmaternal. I always felt a bit sorry for her biological children Mark and Carol, wondering from whom they would get their cuddles.

GoGlenCoco · 10/04/2013 11:49

He wouldn't have written it. It would have been ghosted

He is a fairly articulate soul with a documented passion for philosophy, I think you are being judgemental and rude

Exactly - judgemental and rude.

I hate it when people state things as if they were facts. Ignorant really.

Mrneedy · 10/04/2013 11:50

Sorry, posted too soon "How could anyone who was so resolutely Margaret Thatcher be anything else?"

I was very impressed with this article, and I think he speaks for a lot of people who don't really know how to feel about MT

ConferencePear · 10/04/2013 11:51

"judgemental and rude. "
This describes Brand very well. How dare he ?

Gerrof · 10/04/2013 11:55

I really don't think he is as clever as he thinks he is. He is rather fond of the overblown phrase isn't he.

I agree with some of the broad sentiments (I am pretty much the same age and Thatcher was just there all through my childhood) but I do think it is rather ironic saying that Thatcher was not a feminist figure whilst he makes broadly anti-feminist statements a few paragraphs earlier.

For all of Thatcher's legion faults I can't imagine that she was a worse parent than other obsessive politicians. Gordon Brown (for example) was never exactly a warm personality, I cannot remember ever seeing an article pitying his two children.

GoGlenCoco · 10/04/2013 12:03

Russell Brand can be quite rude I guess.

But judgemental? How so ConferencePear?

OhLori · 10/04/2013 12:12

Chocsaway, I'll repeat again I think it was a lazy, poorly written article. and, FYI, I'm entitled to my opinion. You know nothing about what I consider good writing, so your arrogance here is breathtaking, or is it plain stupidity?

purits · 10/04/2013 12:14

All in all, it's a weird concept.
I grew up under Wilson, Heath, Callaghan. It never occurred to me to think of them in paternal terms so why does RB want to think of MT in maternal terms? Does anyone think of HMQ as 'mum'? Weird.

Later in the article, he slips back into eighties-mode when men had SM thoughts about the 'strict nanny'. Bleurgh.

WhoPaintedTheLion · 10/04/2013 12:20

I can quite imagine Gordon Brown as a father. Or Blair. Or any female politicians as a mother, or any successful business men or women. Or even the Queen. But Thatcher was different. She was so Thatcher. She seemed beyond normal human connections to me as a child. She was the bogey man, and the spider-in-the-web, and the reason for all wrongness, and the embodiment of fear and distrust. She was the hard as nails, no chink in her armour, flawless enemy. The Terminator. That's how she seemed to me as a child. No prizes for guessing the kind of household I grew up in. I know better now as an adult. My mind is much broader, my understanding of politics more complete. But I absolutely understand the feeling that her children must have lived in a love-lack home. She was so removed from humanity by the press, by popular opinion, by her own actions too, to the extent that normal acts of humanity such as going to a supermarket and chatting with the voters about the price of fish seemed a grotesque parody.

I do not believe her to have been lacking in warmth and emotion for her family, not at all. Not now. But at the time, through a child's eyes, she seemed a kind of monster.

ChocsAwayInMyGob · 10/04/2013 12:22

It's not stupidity Lori. I have a degree in English. I consider it a superbly written article.

You may disagree with the content, but I find it incredible that anyone could say it was badly written.

It's not arrogance either, as there are accepted levels of excellence in writing and I think this piece meets those standards.

ChocsAwayInMyGob · 10/04/2013 12:25

WhoPainted- exactly. She was a cold iconic figure, a legendary "baddie" in the eyes of a child at the time. I believe that is Brand's point, rather than being a misogynistic article.

I was 9 when she came to power and a graduate when she left. It was easy for me to imagine that even when buying a packet of Polos she would sound like she was lecturing the shopkeeper.

chibi · 10/04/2013 12:27

if the writer keeps pausing to exclaim'look mama, i'm writing!' then it fails to meet standards of good writing

but then i might just be saying that because i feel sorry for any children he may have someday

ChocsAwayInMyGob · 10/04/2013 12:28

Gerroff- I remember reading an interview with Gordon Brown. He was saying that the grave of his daughter Jennifer Jane, was a place he often visited. He and Sarah had chosen the location specifically as one of reflection and he said he went there often to think of her, and gain sustenance. It was very moving and reminded me of his human side.

purits · 10/04/2013 12:30

I've just realised that 'there is no such thing as society' is actually the same sentiment, but by no means as well expressed, as 'ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country'.
Shock

theodorakisses · 10/04/2013 12:33

Russel doesn't have ghost writers, he actually thinks and talks like he writes.

Gerrof · 10/04/2013 12:45

Chocsaway - just to clarify I don't think for a minute that GB is a cold father (probably the opposite), just that he had a rather brusque and cold image but as far as I know he never recieved any commentary from someone feeling sorry for his children.

Softlysoftly · 10/04/2013 12:49

He lost me at "Barren Baroness" Hmm

PostmanPatricia · 10/04/2013 12:59

Empty drug-addled waffle.

flippinada · 10/04/2013 13:02

Agree with MrsClown, people have very short memories where RB is concerned. He's reasonably intelligent and quite good looking so all the awful things he's done can be forgotten?

I look forward to similarly self-regarding articles about how Blair, Brown and Cameron must be awful fathers.

stripeyjimjams · 10/04/2013 13:10

I think it's a tremendously well-written article, and I don't have much love for RB or his 'work.' It's a comment piece, not meant to be objective, and I think it's fair enough for him to reflect on feeling sorry for her children as, when she was in power, he was a child and her children were therefore an easier point of identification for her than she was.

My DM despised Thatcher (her father was a miner) and is unflinching in her lack of sympathy for her. I hate what Thatcher stood for, and the pain her policies brought to my mother's family's life, but I can maybe step back a bit more than my DM can and say, yes, I do feel shit for her children. Not least because of the amount of hatred they would have been aware of their mother receiving. My DM couldn't watch Carol Thatcher on I'm a Celebrity. Anything Thatcher-related brings back horrendous anger and sadness. I would hate to be viewed that way by anyone because of my mother's politics.

CambridgeBlue · 10/04/2013 13:27

I read this after Caitlin Moran linked to it on Twitter and was surprised that it was written by him. To me it comes across as having been written by someone who wants to show how clever he is (lots of big words and dramatic comparisons) rather than someone who genuinely writes well.

That aside, a lot of the content struck a chord with me. I must be a similar age to RB and MT was a constant figure in the background of my childhood - like Princess Diana or Mr T :). I don't agree with everything he says - as other people have pointed out, would half of this be written about a male public figure? - but the piece made for interesting reading compared to a lot of the claptrap that's been published this week.

Swipe left for the next trending thread