To want our doctors to give us medicine?

[ditziness]

Have two kids, 11 month baby and 4 year old. DH and I got ill 3 weeks or so ago, sore and tight chested, sore throat and ears. Kids started getting it too a week after. DH went to doctor on own and got antibiotics for a chest infection. Me and kids go day after, but apparently no antibiotics needed, we've all got a virus. Meanwhile DH is fighting fit within a couple of days of antibiotics. A week later me and the kids still coughing and rotten, surviving on paracetamol and calpol, not sleeping well . On my knees really. So back to doctors, but still no antibiotics . Apparently still a virus. That DH bizarrely hasn't got.

AIBU to think they should just give us antibiotics?

lessmiss well done, you can use Wikipedia. You obviously consider that that's equivalent to a medical degree so perhaps you could knock up a couple of new antibiotics for us?

What an interesting thread, thanks everyone. Definately helpful reading.

So we had another night of DS being up with his cough a few times and needing his inhaler, and the baby being up every hour or so. Everyone up at 6 and husband off to work. I'm wondering whether I should go back again? I've had this cough now almost a month. The kids nearly two weeks. We're all no better. Infact I just feel a complete wreck, not just physically but mentally I'm pretty rubbish. Didn't help that the month before this we had two rounds of tummy bugs. And before that colds too. Been ill since November pretty much continually. Does your immune system still fight things off when you get no sleep or rest and you're fed up and stressed out?

ditzi if you are not improving, you should definitely go back. Hope you are all better soon

Op's comment about having been ill for the last 6 months is very commmon. Fortunately I or the ds's have not been ill since september, but I do seem to be the exception (for once!)but nearly every mum in the playground has had ill children over xmas and easter and a tale of one thing , then another, then another, inbetween.
I think Op, unfortunately, you have just got what most of the other mums have got this year.
Maybe because we have had such a crap winter, it is a breeding ground for one illness after another?

To be fair Macdoodle, my post was slightly tongue in cheek . In some ways i think i would be happier to pay a gp and know i would get seen same day (sorry!)

However is there anybody in the know at all who could explain why the overuse of antibiotics is never spoken about re animals? (just out of curiosity, not trying to stir hatred or anything!

No one cares if animals die out ?

landrover you are absolutely right that it's a neglected issue. In fairness to vets, they do of course have the disadvantage of the patients being unable to describe their symptoms (mind you, some of my patients have the same problem ). So diagnosis must be harder.

Much more of an issue than veterinary prescribing is the use of antibiotics in animal feeds to promote growth. I don't know why there isn't more fuss about this. Maybe because of the commercial interests of farmers and drug companies?

Definitely return if you have not improved.
Even if it was "just" a virus at the beginning, things can change and worsen.

We had similar last month.

I was ill for a couple of weeks, doctor said viral sinusitis. I dragged my way through for a while, had 3 days off work in bed, then continued dragging myself in. Another week or two passed and I finally was persuaded to go back to the GP, who was concerned. Had a very nasty chest infection, had an emergency chest xray for pneumonia (had that really really bad 3 years ago), was signed off work for 10 days, had penicillin but that was ineffective so a couple of days later had this doubled up with another antiobiotic which kicked in quickly. Still took a while for me to feel a lot better - and now - some 6 weeks later than when it all started I actually feel well and ready to return to school next week.

DD was also ill. GP said DD had same as me, although her symtoms were actually quite different - but we were at the same appointment time (double booking) so guess it made sense at the time that it was probably the same. Again DD didn't improve - she then ended up a few days later with a week off school feeling very poorly. She did have something different and ended up with proper full on old fashioned flu - but she also had bacterial tonsilitis, which we discovered when I did take her back when she didn't improve. They swabbed her and prescribed antibiotics. The abs got rid of the tonsilitis but the flu took longer to go.

yes a tiny percentage of strep throat ends up serious and leads to complications, it's all about risk taking. I know from the Americans that live around me that it appears the norm to take ABs for this and they get quite cross that the local GPS don't want to dish them out and so they are prepared to travel 2 hours round trip to the American doctor who will! For 99.9% of them, the ABs reduce the infection by one or two days, and in taking those ABs they are inadvertently increasing AB resistance.

Turnipcake, is there a systematic audit on what drugs GPs describe to their patients in the UK? I was thinking of your comment about your experience of shadowing a GP when in training who gave ABs like they were sweets.

Anyoneforturps lessmiss well done, you can use Wikipedia. You obviously consider that that's equivalent to a medical degree so perhaps you could knock up a couple of new antibiotics for us?

I wouldn't dream of using Wikipeadia. I use original, formal sources. And I've also got a FR1 sitting right next to me on the sofa My knowledge, limited though it is, of the subject, actually comes from a medical negligence case I was involved in. As I say, understanding how antibiotics work isn't rocket science, GP is hardly the cutting edge, and you are not the only one who got 'A's in Chemistry and Human Biology.

And no, I did not sue my GP for failing to diagnose and treat my pneumonia. I was just glad to receive correct treatment at A&E after 3 weeks, even though I suggested to my GP himself that it was A-typical pneumonia that wasn't responding to penicillin.

MacDoodle - I wouldn't usually comment on people's salary but as you appear to be bleating hard done by it's difficult not to. So your hourly rate works out at £27 per hour and your take home hourly rate is £17 per hour. If you are working 11 hours per day as you say, presumably for 5 days per week, then you are earning £77k - not to sniffed at really is it. The rest of us also have to pay tax, NI, expenses and childcare you know, we don't get to keep our gross salary unfortunately

You seem to think that other professions earning similar salaries are waltzing into work at 9am and leaving at 5pm. Are you for real?! Most people I know earn significantly less than you are all work well beyond their contracted hours.

You really do come across as rather unpleasant when referring to your patients. So what if the 'worried well' come to see you - how are they to know whether they are well or not until they have actually been to see you. How very dare they take up your precious time

And I might just add, in case you categorise me as one of the 'GP haters,' that my old family GP was wonderful and I couldn't praise him highly enough. I moved out of the area and have been at my current surgery for 8 years - the GPs there are generally OK and I've had no problems with them, nor has my husband only one was a bit useless when I went to see him in a incredibly distressed state when I found out I was pregnant

Thank fuck I don't work 11 hrs a day 5 days a week I'd be a shivering wreck. I wonder what other professions with a fair degree of responsibility, trained for 10 years with a further 10 years experience take.home less than £20 /hr. I'm thinking solicitors, accountants, bankers etc ? No wonder GP recruitment is at an all time low.

Most experienced solicitors who do legally aided work will be taking home far far less than that. Conveyancing or matrimonial solicitors also. In fact, most solicitors who aren't doing company/commercial law for one of the big players will be taking home far less. £17 per hour isn't actually your take home pay though, as you have deducted childcare and expenses from your hourly rate to reach that figure.

£77k a year after tax? (Or even before tax) Are you fcking joking? I'm a GP and I earn nowhere near that figure! (I wish).

I'm so sick of GP hatred, it's like you all think we want to be obstructive, unhelpful bastards or something. Or that our years of training and postgraduate exams are nothing (lesmissabs did you mean to sound so bloody rude GP may not be cutting edge to you, how about you come and do my job and then we'll see what you think).

You would be screwed without doctors. You would be screwed without the NHS. Well guess what? Thanks to you the utter idiots who voted in the conservatives you're going to get what you wanted, no more NHS and private doctors who'll prescribe fck loads of antibiotics for no good reason except for to practice defensively and squeeze money out of you and so increase antibiotic resistance.

What has GP pay go to do with this thread anyway? Obsessing about GP pay is just a Daily Mail/Telegraph/Murdoch press way of undermining the NHS, which they all hate for ideological reasons and because their mates who run private health care companies want it destroyed. It's depressing that so many people follow this line like sheep.

I don't think theres GP hatred, thebitchdoctor, theres probably a dislike of being patronised and told we don't understand subjects which are not restricted to medical knowledge. I would have thought your clinical training would have equipped you with the skills to field such such issues quite easily. Certainly in my professional field, I have to be able to equip myself with the ability to understand other often quite technical fields when the occasion demands.

DH is FR1 and I do socialise therefore with a lot of medics, and my views are probably coloured by theirs. None of them want to admit to go into GP. There seems to be a feeling amongst them that it is something you do if you don't want to work hospital hours and pass exams for consultancy, surgery, etc.. That is not to say that I don't respect and admire any doctor, but please don't try to patronise me, or over-egg your own pudding.

The tone of what you write is somewhat surprising - you may wish to refresh your knowledge of the GMC guidelines on social media.

The comments I made were not me obsessing about GP pay but were in response to MacDoodle's own posts about her pay as a GP and that her hourly rate equates to £27 per hour.

TheBitchDoctor - I worked out £77k (gross) based on MacDoodle saying she earns £27ph gross and had done an 11 hour day. I assumed from that that she works 55 hours per week which works out at £77k. She has since gone on to confirm that she doesn't do 11 hours every day so obviously her salary is not that much. She was the one to question whether other professionals at a similar level are earning the same amount, so I gave my opinion on this.

I for one am certainly not one of the 'GP/NHS haters.' I have mostly been happy with the care I have received from my GP and the NHS. I value the NHS and although I don't think it is perfect, I think we will be in a far worse situation if it were privatised.

AnyoneforTurps -I only mentioned GP pay because MacDoodle (who is a GP) was bleating that she was hard done by because she only takes home £17 per hour once she has paid tax, childcare etc. I rightly pointed out that we all have similar deductions from our salary.

As I said in a previous post, I wouldn't usually comment on people's salary, as I don't think it helps, but MacDoodle was the one who mentioned it initially (and was complaining about it) so I pulled her on that, in addition to her attitude about her patients.

Feel for you op really do as in similar situation.

I have 3kids age 7, 3 and 2.

baby age 2 been ill pretty much whole of last 6weeks and not sleeping taken him to gps twice who say its viral just give calpol.

3year olds had a temp and vomiting some of 6weeks shes been ill maybe 5/6weeks finally on mend.,

Eldest7 before easter hols had 2days off school with ear ache doctor said it was virus.

was looking foward to break last week sent both girls to nannys for 1 night as babys not sleeping im exahused and have cough I cant shift.

3year old come home early with vomiting.

7year old next day covered in spots shes got blooming chicken pox,

2year old was on mend taken turn for worse again and is really grumpy and not sleeping.

3year old dident go sleep until 1am last night.
2year old woke up screamking about 4.30 and wouldent go back.
I been coughing so much was vomiting.

during all 3pregancies i had presistant cough and was ill.
I had x ray and i do have scarring to lung which makes me more prone.

Every winter i get chest infection im non smoker oh smokes and is fine.

Nice doctor said should go 1st sign of cough but when i do go they make e feel like wasting time.

They take temps, listen chest but never have any blood tests or anything to prove its viral just have to take their word for it and its what they say if they unsure.

I really should book yet another weekly appointment but last min rrisks having the numpty gps no one wants.

1 man keeps telling me i worry to much, talks like im stupid and tells me in his home country its much harder and I should be greatful, the kids equally cant stand him no bedside manner.

Other week new numpty who says yes she has mild chicken pox, cant go school until every last spot gone!
He also lied and told me chicken pox vaccine dident exist.

Did see nice doctor for 2year old but she couldent hear his chest properly as he wouldent stop screaming she did give me free prescription for calpol -costing me small fortune.

now if im worried i go out of hours as think they take me more seriously.

Always remember when had mastitas day after dd1 was born was really bad and midwife shouting at them making them do a housecall felt like death.

Im not sure I have much faith in nhs im afraid.

If there was a reasonably priced private gps ie 20per visit I would as never feel like they listen.

Back in feb 2year old was running me ragged was still breasfeeding and he started feeding at night like he was newborn again and throwing huge tantrums but no speech was stressed out went to surgery as clinics shut.
My usual hv wasent there the young fill in said yes it could be very difficult prepare for battle given that hes 2 soon and you have some worries reccomend a 2year check with eldest everyone had 2year check but my usual hv be in contact shortly. not heard from her since did get him off boob but had no support.

With each child level of antenatal care/postnatal has got worse.

Im so fed up of battle with gp receptionist, walking 2miles to be patronised or given nothing.

I have workaholic husband , no family near by and its hard when you ill as well as looking after ill kids and sleep deoprived feel like as a mum im not allowed to be ill when hubbys ill hes of course dying.

Not to mention arsey letters from school over absence last year dd1 had 3days max this year more like 10days and feel really bad and have all 3 arguing and making mess at home stressing me out.

Maybe try a different doctor?

If you are exhausted you need some rest too.
Can your H stay at home for a while to take care of you all?

reluctantmover

I'm not sure, in answer to your question, I know there's a formulary for antibiotics in terms of what to prescribe, but I'm not sure if there's an audit for when/how they prescribe them (not a GP trainee, but did to a rotation for my F2 job). I can ask my friend who is, I'll just have to drag her out of her counting house

In the nicest possible way mam29 as it does sound like you have had a bad experience, routine blood tests to see if an infection is bacterial or viral is the biggest waste of NHS resources.

oh FFS

LessMissAbs What's a FR1? Been in medicine 15 years and never heard the term so just curious. You've written it twice so can't be typo.