So really, truly, do you tell someone if they smell?

[awkwardsis]

Am faced with a dilemma. I have a sister 10 years younger than me. She started university in September, wanted to come home pretty much straight away as she was struggling being away from home. She is a very very young 19. My parents live rurally, she has been very isolated and is very unwordly. I had her to stay with me a few days this week. When she arrived she smelled badly of BO. It lasted the 2 days she was here, and I've had to wash all of the covers on my sofa now she's gone as the smell just clung to it :( She's having difficulty making friends which tbh I had put down to her being very unlike the ones she's sharing a flat with. The pictures I've seen on her facebook show them as the 19 year olds I remember from my first year at uni, very into their clothes and make up. But now I'm wondering if there's more to it and they're actually picking on her and making her unhappy? She's about to go on placement as her degree is in teaching and I'm agonising over wether I ought to have a word with her about looking after herself a bit better? She's gone on and on about making a good impression at these schools but tbh I am worried that it won't go unnoticed. I adore my sister and feel an absolute bitch for even having an opinion about how she presents herself. I can't comment on her clothes and lack of make up as I know that's her choice, and yes I know we shouldn't feel we have to wear make up etc. But the smell? Would you want to be told? And how to I phrase it so I don't massively hurt her feelings or make her feel bad about herself?

Good luck! Do let us know how you got on.
Great advice on this thread!

You have to be cruel to be kind sometimes. My approach would be the next time you see her to say "ooh you're a bit niffy today. Do you want to go upstairs for a wash and change of clothes before we go out?" hopefully she'll take the hint. If she doesn't you can say that you've noticed that she suffers from body odour from time to time.

Please tell her.
When I first met my DP, he had BO. He didn't use deo , because he thought he was allergic to it (it turned out he was, but only to some brands). I liked him a lot, but knew I could never have a serious, long term relationship with someone who smelled bad. Telling him that he had BO was probably one of the most difficult things I have ever done - I was afraid he would take it badly, be offended, walk away. He didn't, he changed, we have been together for many years and have two lovely children. If I hadn't had that conversation, I would have walked away and life would have very different.

mimi - my dh was a bit the same. He is very eco friendly, lives life naturally, and thought deo was too artificial, nasty chemicals and all that.

I convinced him otherwise, and we have now been married for 13 years

Yes, think you should tell her. It occurs to me that if she is unhappy and feeling stressed this can make BO worse. Good luck :)

I had to have this exact conversation withmy sister she stank if BO and ger breath was hideous. We went for a drive and I just told her that I loved her and wanted to be the one to help her sort it out. She took it surprisingly well and since our conversation shes showers daily and uses mitchum and body spray.

It's hard but it will be much worse coming from strangers who can be very cruel. Whereas you can play the love and just want you to be happy card.

I also had to tell a bloke in my team in work that he smells too.

That was harder.

How about saying you've bought this really, really good new deodrant and give her a bottle of it too?

And spray air freshner all the time around her and hope she takes the hint

I was in a similar predicament with my sister, 8 years my junior. She's very eco-aware (good for her) so was using this crystal deodorant block instead of an antiperspirant deodorant. This might work for some people but my sister (by her own admission) sweats a fair bit. She stayed for a couple of nights when I was pregnant with DD, showered but put on t-shirts from the previous day (at the time she was also using a laundry ball to wash clothes in which didn't seem to get the sweat out of clothes. . . ) and, with my super-exaggerated sense of smell, I actually felt nauseated. Her BO was so awful that rooms smelt for ages after she'd left. I felt sorry for her and was anxious about broaching the subject but adopted a cruel to be kind attitude. I was also worried that she'd see it as a slight on her lifestyle choices. Anyway, I just came out with it and it was a little awkward but she bought a deodorant straight away (aerosol at that) and the positively abandoned eco-principles when she purchased an impulse body spray (they also make me heave!) but she smells soooo much better now so it was worth doing!

Sorry. That was a totally epic way of saying: feel for you, agree with others you need to tell her!

"maybe I can approach it in the way that 'mum should have taught us this stuff, I had to teach myself so I'm going to pass the wisdom onto you'."

^ This.

It sounds as if your mum was in some way afraid of you becoming adults, e.g. not allowing shaving, not allowed to use the washing machine etc. But at 19 your sister is an adult, so your mum has no right to "not let her shave" or dictate to her in any other way. It's so good she has a wise older sister to rely on. Let her know you're there if she needs to chat about anything else too.

I once took over a nanny job from a girl who was leaving. We had a cross-over period and shared a room for a bit. After a few days she asked me what I was spraying on my armpits and I told her. She had never heard of deodorant.

It boils down to: do you think she'd rather hear it from you, or her teacher training mentor?

I've had to have this conversation with a trainee teacher (along much the same lines as marriedinwhite suggests). There'd been quite a number of comments on her terrible BO, from both staff & students.

It didn't go particularly well: 'I don't have a BO problem! My boyfriend would have told me!'

She then stormed off tearfully to ask a group of younger teachers in the staffroom: 'Do I smell? Raven says I smell...'

Other teachers, sheepishly: 'Um, well, actually, yes you do.'

Poor lass. Would probably have been better if a kindly elder sister had had a fairly direct word before she had to hear it from me?

Thermals, there is an element if disapproval that we dare grow up, absolutely. I didn't tell her I was pregnant all three times til about 6 months! But actually, she worked on a farm until abiut 4 years ago when she started an office job and I had to take her to debenhams and kit her out. She had no idea. So I can just say to my sister that I'm doing the same for her. I'm thinking of taking her to somewhere cheap and cheerful like h and m and just getting her to try some outfits on so she knows the basics. If I can stretch to it ill buy her some pieces, if not ill have a quit word with dad to get him to slip her some dosh when he drives her back to halls.

This is difficult. Some people you need to be really blunt with unfortunately. I worked in unis preparing students for interviews and placements and the amount of times I had to have this conversation is almost unbelievable.

They also had the impression they HAD to wear suits. Cheap polyester suits worn for days on end absolutely hummed. I found having vague conversations did not work at all. 'Make sure you wash your self/clothes regularly' is no good if they nod emphatically but they mean regularly, once a week. They would even say others smelled but didn't think they did. or didn't believe me.

With regards to the clothes and make up, have you tried open questions? 'dsis have you noticed anything different about what the other girls wear?' 'what do you think of these clothes?' etc then you can gauge whether she is oblivious to them or has chosen purposely not to wear them. Can you also say 'why do you think you don't have anyone to move in with?' see what she thinks about it all.

She may be very lonely. Can you discuss how people like similars and it's a 'tribal' thing, looking similar is how we ascertain whether someone is 'like' us.

I have a similar thing with DH. He is 'on the spectrum' and has no notion of clothes or sizing (basically if he gets it on it fits - so has ridiculously small and massive clothes) and not a great perception of hygiene. Sadly subtlety doesn't work and bluntness hurts his feelings. There seems to be no middle ground. So i buy all his clothes and do all the washing.

This thread has made me feel very paranoid. I am a student teacher myself and shower every day. I use a good deodorant but I still sweat sometimes, especially when very stressed at school. Not so much now obviously as it's absolutely freezing.

However, since moving to London I have found that my clothes sometimes still smell when coming out the washing machine. I have no idea why and have never had this issue before. I now sniff everything before wearing it and put it back in if necessary . DP is having the same issue so maybe it's a water thing? I don't know. I am very conscious of this and really hope no one thinks I smell.

My good school things usually say that they should be washed at 30 or 40 degrees so I am worried washing them much hotter. Any advice on how to really get things smelling clean? I have started using fabric conditioner and it has helped a bit but I am worried it might just be masking it. Also I obviously can't use it with some of my clothes.

So from this thread I gather that biological washing powder is better (I didn't grow up in the UK either and had no one tell me these things. I usually buy whatever is on sale). Any other advice? I have been so worried about this for a while and this thread is leaving me a bit paranoid.

Gravity- London water is very hard so more powder/detergent is needed. I used to teach and I would sweat a lot- hot sweaty children in a warm room, me prancing about the class all day then sprinting for the tube home.

I still tend to sweat a fair bit (menopause ain't helping!) but I use Sure 48 hour stick and I find it really works.

I think some lovely advice has been given here and it's brave of people to
share own experiences, especially those who weren't taught how to look after their personal hygiene.

Good luck OP with whatever you decide to do!

I think you need to clean your washing machine GravityDefier.

Dr Beckmann Service It Washing Machine Cleaner

i put a squirt of oxy stain spray on the armpits and crotch of DH's clothes as well as a bio detergent and a scoop of oxy colour/white stain powder.

Don't stress GravityDefier.

You need to clean the machine every so often. A very hot empty wash with half a teaspoon of ordinary bleach in the detergent draw is good. You can toss in some soda crystals too. In London you have to deal with lime scale/hard water that builds up in the machine, so periodically using a lime scale remover will clear that but it also makes it more difficult to get a good lather with detergent. If you look on the back of detergent packets you'll see they recommend using more in hard water areas. You can use a scoop of soda crystals in each wash to soften the water.

I find using bio washing powder is the more effective in getting rid of any smells than bio liquid. I combine it with a scoop of a stain removing powder like Vanish. You can also use the same stuff to soak shirts for an hour before washing them, which becomes essential if you've been on the Tube during rush hour in August. I stick 4 or 5 things in a bucket with a scoop of this stuff for an hour.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the non-judgemental advice. It's an embarrassing topic and I couldn't really ask anyone about it.

I have been using liquid detergent, I will get some powder next time. I have been using the right amount for hard water I think as I always check the package. I am aware of how hard the water is as I descale my kettle every few weeks (gross!) but I have never considered using anything to descale my washing machine somehow. I did clean it before I moved in, using the Dr Beckman stuff, but have not done it since.

I will get some of the stuff and have a look at what works for me. I am really glad people have said it could be the water/washing machine or even stuff I am using. I have been quite worried about what could have changed otherwise.

if in a nice way and you know them well and others are talking about them behind their back then yes..

Good luck OP - not going to repeat everything everyone else has said as there's already been fantastic advice, just tell her gently

And let us know if it goes okay

Well.....I did. My friend didn't really smell that bad but he doesn't wash his clothes and had a permanent sort of sweat/alcohol/fags aura. It's like when perfumes give you a headache, just wasn't nice being around him. I told him that I couldn't hang out smelling that all the time and brought him soap, deodorant, a fresh towel, some clothes I didn't want anymore (his size) and some other bits and bobs. While he took a shower (I told him he had to take at least half an hour on it) I lugged his clothes to the laundry room and filled three washing machines with clothes that stank and poured in the so-chemical fabric conditioner. He took it all in his stride cos he's that sort of person, has loads of friends so knew it wasn't terrible. He smells fine ever since. I wouldn't have been so blunt about it if he wasn't like he is, but I still would have brought it up in some other way. Yes, really and truly, you do tell people if they smell....

Your sister sounds different. But to be honest sensitive people (and I don't mean that in a bad way, I'm the same) get hung up on a million things a day. Something like this will be one of those things, one more or less is not a drama in the grand scheme and the benefits far outweigh the costs....she won't be scarred for life! You sound like you're worried she'll develop a complex about it. But it doesn't sound like she's that self conscious.

Like other people have said you do sound lovely btw!

Please let it come from you op :)

And there's been some great advice on here

Sometimes BO can be a sign of untreated diabetes or other fairly serious health problems so you owe it to her to tell her just from that perspective

Er really? I must have missed that lecture at medical school

There are medical conditions that make you sweat excessively but, even then, you will only smell if you don't wash. From everything the OP has said, her Dsis is neglecting her personal hygiene. That is why she smells. There is no mystery and no need for medical tests.

It will be a hard enough conversation (though a necessary one), telling the Dsis about the smell . For gawd's sake don't traumatise the poor girl further by making her go to the GP too. As a GP myself, I would not be doing any tests for underlying medical conditions on someone who smells because she does not wash/change her clothes enough!

OP, you sound like a very caring sister. I'm afraid you have to have this talk with your Dsis. Don't let her go on her placement without warning her - it's tough enough learning to teach without the kids picking on her.