To think a woman can look professional and presentable at work without make-up?

[RevoltingPeasant]

I have been pondering this recently, as a new convert to the Style & Beauty forum.

I go through stages with make-up, where sometimes I can't be bothered for weeks and then I wear the whole shebang every day for ages. I don't think 'looking professional' depends on make-up: I would say neat slacks and blouse with understated jewelry and a generally 'on-task' manner counts as a professional appearance.

But I have noticed quite a lot of people who feel they have to wear make-up for work. Is this so in your workplace? Would you care if you were interviewing for a post and a female candidate was bare-faced? AIBU to think you can look totally professional without paint?

I think it probably scares a lot of women, which is understandable. (Application wise).

I would understand the OP more if for example the OP had been part of a team who was interviewing someone and someone made a comment that they wouldn't hire X because she had no make-up on then I could understand it more.

I work in a legal environment, and have done many interviews before. I generally first check whether they are qualified, have experience and then their manner and appearance.

And appearance being clean and smart clothes, tidy hair, clean hands. Whether they are wearing make-up or not never crosses my mind.

In fact I think it's more the other way around, if someone came into an interview with orange foundations, large amounts of blusher and huge false eyelashes then they would probably get turned down just for that reason.

I've never though ... "hmm that woman is definitely qualified, has tons of experience, came across as really friendly, hard-working and confident, has fantastic references, looked really smart and groomed ..... but she wasn't wearing make-up so she's clearly not professional"

What a complete load of bull.

So basically you agree with OP then Blonde?

Apart from the use of the word paint.

In fact I think it's more the other way around, if someone came into an interview with orange foundations, large amounts of blusher and huge false eyelashes then they would probably get turned down just for that reason.

I would say that's clearly a case of the make up wearing the woman, rather than the other way around.

There is a world in between hissing and making the cross at a lip balm and coming to work in drag. I find both extremes a little bizarre.

I wear make-up at work because I have been socially conditioned to think I look better with it on, and so it gives me a confidence boost.

However, the idea that make-up is a necessity to look groomed and fully presentable is just ludicrous.

Maybe the two women who went make-up free for their presentation that someone spoke of earlier in the thread (good lord, that this would even be a point of discussion after the presentation FFS!) were just generally a bit scruffy, and their lack of make-up had nothing to do with it...?

I refuse to believe that a woman smartly dressed with her hair neat and otherwise presentable, would look any scruffier or more unkempt than a man professionally dressed.

Blonde you really seem to have been riled by my OP for some reason. I know this is AIBU, but this was a rather 'musing' thread than 'outraged'.

As I said, I've been on the S&B forum recently and consequently been pondering what people feel 'well groomed' is. That's all. I have never judged a woman as professional or not on her make up. In fact that mindset is quiet alien to me, which I why I said I wear make up sometimes and sometimes not. But I wondered what others thought....

Generally....I do wonder if there are different professional judginesses: sometimes in academia I have felt that women wearing make up getting judged as being not serious. So sort of the opposite of the No Make Up Presentation women.

I notice a few women have mentioned specifically hospital drs not wearing make up and I wonder if in a traditionally male-dominated environment there is an urge to 'not be too pretty' or to present oneself as 'authoritative & masculine' iyswim.

Not read the thread through,but what on earth would wearing or not wearing make up have anything to do with whether a man or woman can do a job well?

I would question the professionalism of anyone who thinks otherwise tbh!

I wear very little make-up. I find it a faff and I'm crap at it. If I was any good, I'd probably try to make my eyes look a bit prettier. I don't put much foundation on my face and I find my skin is so much healthier than it was when I was younger and used cake it on.

Times have moved on since Panstick.

I was quite riled by your use of the term "face paint", as it was rude and very passive aggressive.

You also kept digging and prodding her by asking her the same question twice.

Hospital drs don't wear make-up in hospitals for health and hygienic reasons. It's nothing to do with being professional or not.

Right - I honestly did see 'paint' as rude or passive aggressive (to lily). If so then sorry - blonde & lily - I really didn't and don't understand why that is offensive but fine. I accept that no one is going to explain this to me!

That is interesting about drs; I wouldn't have thought it would be unhygienic but I suppose it might not be.

did NOT see, obviously, grrr

YANBU if you can carry it off, I can't!! need to hide bags under eyes

Is it just me or is Binks spectacularly missing the point?

Oliver - that's why I wear make-up, too.

I wonder why men aren't bothered by the bags under their eyes.

I accept that no one is going to explain this to me!

She explained it to you!! Or did you decide to ignore it?

Face paint = children with dragons on their face, or a clown.

It's a bloody rude thing to say and even more rude to say no-one going to bother to explain it to me when they already have - TWICE.

No, not just you, Annie...

I am a hospital Dr and plenty of my colleagues wear make up. I can't recall ever being told it is forbidden.

I don't, personally, because I CBA and frankly couldn't give a shiny shit what anyone else (colleagues or patients) thinks of my appearance, as long as I am clean. I wear scrubs most of the time anyway.

I like wearing make up. It does make me feel more confident. And I do look better for it. Its how you put it on tbh. I dont wear if I am working at home but absolutely if I have a customer meeting. It DOES make me look more in charge and professional.

I did a school run a few months ago with make up and a work suit. One of the Mums's (Russian and very outspoken) came up to me and asked if I had had a facelift I looked so different from normal!

Lily - you can carry on being offended, or accept that Peasant didn't mean the slightest bit of rudeness by the use of 'paint'...

My Mum used to say she was 'putting her face on'. Clearly she wasn't actually doing that. It's just a phrase.

Lily - I'm obviously unintentionally causing offence and I'll say sorry again for that. I see that 'face paint' is used to describe children's face paint but didn't think that meant it was automatically horrible to describe make-up that way. I am guessing that it's because you/she thought I was saying make-up was infantilising?

I wasn't trying to 'dig', just get clarity as I hadn't understood. Personally I think of my make-up as decorative, and I do think of it as 'dressing up' or adorning/ painting my face. I didn't think that that was that awful, but this is obviously hacking you so I'll leave this alone now.

Professional job, client facing. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I don't wear make-up because I'm expected to. I don't judge other professionals or colleague on their make up. But sometimes I feel like wearing it, so I do.

Vinegar that is interesting - so there is not a hygiene issue then?

In my my profession, it is largely younger women who do wear make up. I think a lot of older women don't but they often had to fight quite hard to make themselves heard in a tough, sexist environment and I sometimes think they present in a blunt, 'masculine' way - and that is their 'professional face'.

Anyhow, DH needs dinner...